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The Tea Party Candidate Falls In NY-23

By Kleinheider Posted on November 3, 2009 at 11:24 pm

But some conservative bloggers think that’s okay:

First, the GOP now must recognize it will either lose without conservatives or will win with conservatives. In 2008, many conservatives sat home instead of voting for John McCain. Now, in NY-23, conservatives rallied and destroyed the Republican candidate the establishment chose.

I have said all along that the goal of activists must be to defeat Scozzafava. Doug Hoffman winning would just be gravy. A Hoffman win is not in the cards, but we did exactly what we set out to do — crush the establishment backed GOP candidate.

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37 Responses to “The Tea Party Candidate Falls In NY-23”

  1. GoldnI writes
    November 3rd, 2009 11:42 pm

    but we did exactly what we set out to do — crush the establishment backed GOP candidate.

    Mission accomplished! Keep up the good work on your purge!

  2. Awesome! writes
    November 3rd, 2009 11:44 pm

    Great job guys! Keep it up!

  3. Donna Locke writes
    November 3rd, 2009 11:57 pm

    Erick is on the fantasy train.

  4. N.S. Allen writes
    November 4th, 2009 1:46 am

    Yeah, nothing’s going to teach the GOP that it needs to “win with conservatives” or risk “losing without them” than having a conservative candidate ruin a competitive race for the GOP candidate and then lose a solidly Republican seat to a Dem.

    That’s some grade A crazy, right there.

  5. Davy writes
    November 4th, 2009 3:21 am

    John Rich and Fred Thompson went to NY-23 to endorse a loser? And that’s winning?

  6. dontcallmemikey writes
    November 4th, 2009 5:31 am

    Gotta lose today to umm, … lose tomorrow!

  7. imwrightwing writes
    November 4th, 2009 5:50 am

    As long as the GOP, regardless of one’s principles or character, continues to be beholden to big money candidates and continues to stand behind (R)’s just to have, or hold, a “Republican” in a seat, they will continue to struggle with their identity.

    The Republican electorate is fed up, and the “Party” will continue to face opposition from people who have the “Republican” principles the party seems to neglect because of their blinders.

  8. Just 'thinkin writes
    November 4th, 2009 7:29 am

    The definition of conservative:

    in favor of preserving the status quo and traditional values and customs, and against abrupt change.

    So the question is: whose status quo, whose traditional values and customs and for abrupt change to my way?

    I suggest you claim the Repblican party but make the R for Reactionary:opposed to progressive social or political change.

  9. Sally Smarty Pants writes
    November 4th, 2009 7:46 am

    The kids are clearly in charge of the candy store.

  10. Josh Arrowood writes
    November 4th, 2009 7:48 am

    I think that this underscores that the difficulty that an independent has in winning a general election.

    The Republican Party needs the conservatives to win, and the conservatives need the Republican Party as a vehicle for winning elections. I daresay had Hoffman been listed with an R, he wins.

    I am not speaking out against third parties. I have voted 3rd Party knowing my candidate would not win. Conservatives need to come together under one banner. If a candidate is chosen by that party that is not a candidate conservatives can vote for, then they need to go under a single banner to keep clout in the next election.

  11. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 8:36 am

    Josh I think this says a lot of how and independent CAN win the election.

    6 weeks ago people were saying Hoffman?? Hoffman? What do you mean Hoffman?

    Last night he came close to winning..

    IMO time was the factor. Not his message, because 3 weeks ago he was running at 7% of the vote,

    Last I saw he was getting 45-46%..

    3 weeks…

  12. B writes
    November 4th, 2009 8:40 am

    Sorry - but I’m not going to dance on the grave of the GOP. History teaches us that republicans will, one day, be solidly back in power. Its the natural pendulum swing. The question is how long will it take before it does swing backward. The ones pulling the tea baggers strings know this. They know that a big tent GOP could take power years sooner than an exclusive tent GOP. Eventually, democrats will be democrats and the country will be sick enough of us that they will want something, anything different. The teabag leaders want to make sure that they are idealogically pure when that day happens. Who is their best example? Not Ronald Reagan, even though he is their spiritual founder. Its LBJ - the last great new deal president. One year after JFK’s assasination, LBJ had transformed government and society - the civil rights act, great society programs like head start, medicaid, free lunch, etc. Of course he went and squandered his legacy in vietnam - but the point is that all he needed was one solid year to build out an agenda that still dominates the federal government. Thats what the teabagger leaders want a chance to have. Not a pendulum swing between moderate left and moderate right where nothing really changes. They realize that the democrats have paralyzed themselves with a 60 vote supermajority that has too many moderate and conservative democrats to really make things happen. Teabag leaders see that as a tactical mistake by their democratic counterparts and don’t want to repeat it if and when they are able to have the same thing.

  13. dontcallmemikey writes
    November 4th, 2009 8:43 am

    TNVol73 - and by your same logic, no one knew Charles Manson until those people were killed - then it was ‘Manson? Manson? Manson!”

    As for 3 weeks - a lot happens when the ‘R’ drops out - funny, all that ‘R’ support shifted when the ‘R’ candidate quit. And why did she quit? She was abandoned by the party. All the glittering stars of Republicandom came to support him and he lost a seat that had been ‘R’ for 120 years.

    David Davis - bring it on!

  14. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:05 am

    one prolem My logic is logical.

    3 weeks, Hoffman’s support grew from less than 5% to 45% (a 900% increase)

    showing the voter support was trending his way. Would it have been enough to give him a victory. Don’t know, But looking at the trend, the answer could be a 60/40 yes.

    Polls are meaningless, unless you follow the trends.

  15. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:06 am

    Mikey, the R dropped out 3 days ago… which means that many Rs that voted in the early voting.. did not get an opportunity to vote for the canidate they voted.

    the D won with less than 10%..

    now if she had dropped 3 weeks ago you might be right.. But she didn’t

  16. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:07 am

    “D won with less than 50%” sorry.

  17. cmarcus45 writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:14 am

    To compare Scozzafava to McCain is intellectually dishonest. Scozzafava was pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and selected by the NY GOP as its candidate. McCain was pro-life, a supporter of states’ rights and elected by the people to represent the GOP. Labels are thrown around loosely these days, but McCain is a “moderate” because he realizes that concessions must sometimes be made and middle ground found to advance the greater good. Scozzafava was truely a “RINO” because of her beliefs. They are not the same.

    Scozzafava was not a true Republican candidate. Hoffman was. We all know that the New Yorkers who chose Scozzafava as the candidate are not representative of the Republican Party. After all, the platform from the 2008 Republican National Convention is in line with Hoffman’s views, not Scozzafava’s views.

    And where’s the story line about Republicans winning all three races in Virginia and the NJ gubernatorial race?! Republican=Conservative and vice-versa, but we cannot be so stubborn that we defeat ourselves. Scozzafava is neither a conservative or a Republican, and that is why she was pushed out of the race. So long as people identifying themselves as Republicans continue to categorize between “conservatives” and others, the Republican Party will struggle. We must find the common ground within our core of beliefs to serve the greater good.

  18. dontcallmemikey writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:15 am

    Trending is meaningless, to - TNVol - because, ummm … they had an election. It’s over. Newt, Fred and Sarah all flew in to help this guy; all eyes were on this prize. It was the big muscle flex of the ‘C’ brand - and they lost.

  19. Josh Arrowood writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:20 am

    TN73… I didn’t say can’t. Everything lined up perfectly for him, and he lost. Had he had more time, he would have probably won, but most everything that had to happen, happened. It is still very difficult to win as an indy.

    That is part of what the campaign for liberty is supposed to do, it seems. They want to take a big part in the Republican Party, as I understand it.

    There are two options: create a new party or gain a large stake in an existing party. Which would be easier, taking over Microsoft or creating a new company out of nothing to destroy Microsoft? Both are difficult, but Microsoft is a brand that people are accustomed to.

    I wish the best of luck to the paleocons and libertarian leaning Republicans in taking over the Republican Party. Big government intervention is not where it is at. However, it needs to be done tactifully without turning possible conservative allies against you.

  20. Republic party pooper writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:21 am

    “D won with less than 50%” sorry.

    Why start fact checking now?

  21. Moderate Democrat writes
    November 4th, 2009 9:46 am

    TN Vol, Hoffman was not an independent but the Conservative Party candidate. In NY, many conservative party nominees have won over the years. The real fluke is that a democrat won this seat for the first time in 120 years. If the Republicans continue to narrow their party of moderates and become an ideological party, they will continue to decline.

  22. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 10:12 am

    Moderate Democrat

    Hellow the Conservitive party like the Libertarian and Reform parties are labled on the ballots as INDEPENDENT.

    Not a real fluke.. This is the First time a 3rd party has been competative in the district.

    You only want to take in account the factors that provel your point.

    First time and Independent party has been competitave.

    First time an Independent has forces one of the 2 party canidates to drop out in the district

    First time the R canidate indorsed the Democrat canidate.

    If the trend had the time to continue most likely the Independent would have won.

  23. Josh Arrowood writes
    November 4th, 2009 10:13 am

    Moderate,

    She was not a moderate. If she were a liberal, no one would have had a problem calling her a liberal Dem. She was a liberal Republican.

  24. Moderate Democrat writes
    November 4th, 2009 11:42 am

    the Conservative Party in NY is not like the Libertarians, Reform Party, or other 3rd parties. They actually have influence there and win elections. They even won a US Senate seat several years ago over an R and a D.

    Face it TNV, Hoffman lost despite (or because of) the parade of celebrity Right visiting the Adirondacks on his behalf.

  25. dontcallmemikey writes
    November 4th, 2009 11:52 am

    Here’s the website, TNVol73

    http://www.cpnys.org/

    BTW - Buckley was the name of the Senator ;)

  26. Davy writes
    November 4th, 2009 12:16 pm

    What drives me crazy is people like TNVol73 who simply can’t seem to understand one simple point:

    Americans aren’t ideological.

    American voters, for the most part, aren’t ideological.

    That’s why the Democratic Party apparatus doesn’t like candidates who are perceived as liberals.

    The above is a real simple, undeniable fact of political history.

    Conservatives can either accept it and deal with it and try to persuade others to vote for their policies. Or they can be arrogant, act like they’re better and “purer” than everybody else, and watch the GOP wither.

    It’s not any different for conservative Republicans than it is for liberal Dems.

    And if you think it will be, you’re delusional.

  27. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 1:46 pm

    Davy..

    I understand very well.

    I am not a liberal that buries my head in the sand and expect government to wipe our butts.

    everyone should work, if you receive welfare, you should have to do 40 hours of community service for before you can receive welfare.

    There are those that cannot work, but they are few and far between and should be covered by SS Disiblity.

  28. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 1:47 pm

    No Conservitives are not Purer than anyone else.

    They beleive everyone is equal and should be equally repsonsible for their decisions.

  29. Snuffy writes
    November 4th, 2009 2:20 pm

    There’s been a lot of stupid things being said by Teabaggers on this thread, but this one trumps them all from the original thread at RedState:

    “In 2008, many conservatives sat home instead of voting for John McCain.”

    Nope. Not even remotely true. That was the whole point of putting Sarah Palin on the ticket. And it worked - the wingnut base came out for her even though many of them were not happy with John McCain. The drawback to nominating Sarah Palin is that the Republicans lost swing voters because of her. Exit polling bears that out and the rank-and-file of the GOP have yet to acknowledge that.

    The Republicans had 100% of their turnout in 2008 and there is no evidence to support the notion that some magical bloc of hyper-conservative voters who haven’t voted yet is going to appear to save the Republican Party. The GOP has nowhere else to go to get votes. It’s just math. Nationwide, more people consider themselves Democrats and vote for the Democrats. True independents (not the former Republicans who are calling themselves independents now) went with Obama too. And the result was an electoral landslide.

    Things aren’t going to get any better, either. The GOP has lost a whole generation of young people. They’ve lost African-Americans completely and they’ve probably lost the Hispanic vote permanently too thanks to the Teabaggers’ obsession over “illegals” which is really just barely concealed racism. Republicans have lost the cities, which are growing. They’ve lost educated professionals - also a growing class. They’ve largely lost women - especially in the cities. The most solid group of voters the GOP has held onto are white men, but all that needs to happen is that the unions keep working to offset that advantage - which they are beginning to because the Republicans are not offering economic solutions. Seniors seem to be on board with the GOP, but they are the tail end of the New Deal generation and they’ll all be dead in 10 years.

    Republican strategists know all of this and privately, they know that the Republican Party (and the conservative agenda) is in MAJOR political problems for the forseeable future unless serious changes are made in the GOP’s messaging and who it elects to represent their party. But the way the conservative coalition is built now, it is very difficult for moderate, fresh faces who promote compassionate conservatism to gain a foothold in the GOP. The inmates are running the asylum and what we saw last night in NY-23 was just a taste of what we can expect to see - Teabaggers ruining the Republicans’ chances at regaining power because of some vague “ideological litmus test” which fails to acknowledge the reality that it has been conservative ideology that has weakened America. Another test case is coming up soon in Florida as wingnut Mario Rubio is challenging the popular Charlie Crist in the GOP primary. Every Democrat in the country should be rooting for Rubio and there’s a better than even chance he’s going to beat Crist.

    Anyway, the only way the Republican Party is going to take back the White House is if they nominate a moderate conservative that does not scare off real independents and swing voters. And even then a GOP victory will depend on how Obama has performed in his first term. If the economy recovers and people are working, there is ZERO chance for the Republicans in 2012 and maybe even long after that once people have gotten a taste of how healthcare reform is working for them.

    I and a lot of other progressives are rooting for the Teabaggers - they are the gift that keeps on giving. Yesterday, they gave Democrats two seats in Congress and I look forward to them delivering more in the forseeable future.

  30. Davy writes
    November 4th, 2009 2:52 pm

    I understand very well.

    “I am not a liberal that buries my head in the sand and expect government to wipe our butts.

    everyone should work, if you receive welfare, you should have to do 40 hours of community service for before you can receive welfare.

    There are those that cannot work, but they are few and far between and should be covered by SS Disiblity.”

    TNVol73-

    No, you didn’t get my point.

    My point is that MOST people, and yes, MOST VOTERS are NOT driven to the polls by ideology.

    That’s why people who have been called, in a derogatory fashion, the party establishment or party functionaries tend to stay away from party members who are extreme in their beliefs.

    That’s just the way it is.

    I’m not talking about how you personally act on your ideological beliefs, I’m talking about how MOST voters don’t.

    They want their trash picked up, their neighborhoods safe, and the pot holes filled.

    It’s that simple.

  31. Donna Locke writes
    November 4th, 2009 6:15 pm

    Snuffy, there is so much wrong with your statement here: Teabaggers ruining the Republicans’ chances at regaining power because of some vague “ideological litmus test” which fails to acknowledge the reality that it has been conservative ideology that has weakened America.

    First of all, it is the abandonment of true conservatism that has weakened America.

    Second, as far as I’ve been able to determine, and this is a very general observation, the tea party movement mainly comprises Americans who are tired of being robbed and tied up with their own sash. It’s a fiscal thing and a reaction to alarming federal power grabs that mark an acceleration in a direction our government/our country has been heading for some time. Americans may not be able to articulate their concerns clearly, but they sense we’ve picked up speed on a disastrous course and that the windows of opportunity for altering course are closing. Thus, the outcry.

    Third, these tea-party folks don’t fit into any neat ideological slots, despite some opponents’ characterizations. This is also a fact that Republicans fail to realize, understand, consider.

    My definition of and adherence to conservatism, of limited government, is much different from that of many who call themselves conservative. I am not alone in this. The Republican party has gone astray, to our way of thinking.

    Independents like me in the long-suffering middle class ally with Republicans, because the fiscal blindness and irresponsibility of the Democrats is so destructive that we think our best hope lies with Republicans who say they will exercise restraint and secure our interests, though, of course, so many of them have let us down in that regard.

    I could be described as a radical moderate who sees the temporary value of extremes in reaction to extremes. It is and will be a question of balance. We need a course correction. By any means necessary? We’ll see.

  32. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 7:08 pm

    Davy and if they want their Neigborhoods safe, pot holes filled and garbage picked up.

    They better elect a conservitive.

    look at Philly. Worst unemployment in 5 decades, and the Bus Drivers are on Strike…

    Liberalism fails.

    The Democrats cannot even save companies “To Big to Fail”

    Free market Ford, Toyota, Honda, VW are growing.

    Socialist Crysler, and GM are tanking..

  33. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 4th, 2009 7:11 pm

    Moderate. No he lost because early voting Republicans that would have supported Hoffman, already voted for the R. that was no longer in the Race.

    The Liberal R would have pulled Liberal D and Is from the liberal D.

    This is a short term Victory. Next year Hoffman will be elected in that District.

  34. Davy writes
    November 5th, 2009 8:16 am

    “I could be described as a radical moderate who sees the temporary value of extremes in reaction to extremes. It is and will be a question of balance. We need a course correction. By any means necessary? We’ll see.”

    What exactly are you advocating?

    The people spoke last November. So you’re advocating over turning the will of a clear majority of voters, through what means?

    How about this, and feel free to pass this along to your tea-partying, old, white, male, Medicare supported friends:

    Get your act together, field a candidate that appeals to the majority of the electorate, and win the next presidential election.

    I think it’s in the Constitution. You may want to look at it.

  35. Davy writes
    November 5th, 2009 8:19 am

    “Davy and if they want their Neigborhoods safe, pot holes filled and garbage picked up.

    They better elect a conservitive.”

    Sorry, TNVol73, once again you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

    Conservatives claim individuals can better spend their own money.

    All those services you mentioned cost money, taxes.

    Cut taxes, cut govt. services.

    It’s that simple, but I guess for you it can never be simple enough.

  36. Donna Locke writes
    November 5th, 2009 3:19 pm

    Gee, Davy, I think the people paying for all this should have a major say, particularly as they are being outnumbered by the folks who can vote themselves OPM. We’re set up for legalized theft now.

  37. TNVolunteer73 writes
    November 5th, 2009 4:20 pm

    Davy.. Yes that is exactly what I said.

    Conservitives believe in Personal freedom.

    That is the Freedom to succeed as much as you can succeed.

    And the Freedom to fail, get up try again and again until you do succeed.

    EXACTLY WHAT I SAID CONSERVITIVES SUPPORT PERSONAL FREEDOM.

    As Robin Williams’ character said in the movie “Moscow on the Hudson”

    America is a wonderful place. You can become a rich if you wish to work hard enough and smart enough, but you also have the freedom to be a bum if you want too.

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