Pre-K Yields Diminishing Returns Says Report

26 Responses to “Pre-K Yields Diminishing Returns Says Report”

1. martin kennedy writes
   October 29th, 2009 2:52 pm

   We are so far beyond the point of diminishing returns, at all levels, when it comes to inputs in education.

2. Nashville Jefferson writes
   October 29th, 2009 2:54 pm

   Maybe, maybe not. Other studies (e.g. The Perry Preschool Study) have shown effects on down the line. So far, this has been a short cohort (only a few years), and “effects,” as far as I can tell, are basically being measured by test. One of the main points of Perry was that some of the socialization and other less quantifiable skills learned in Pre-K may have pretty large effects on down the line.

3. N.S. Allen writes
   October 29th, 2009 3:56 pm

   Choosing to talk about pre-K in terms like these always baffles me.

   Presumably, the kids who go to pre-K do better not because the program gives them some undefinable, magical “boost” - they do better because it adjusts them to the school environment and gives them a head-start on learning basic skills.

   If, after a few years of school, they are only performing on par with their peers, that doesn’t suggest that the head-start from before was imaginary or not useful. Rather, it suggests that the elementary schools are wasting the head-start their pre-K students have and that THEY need to be re-examined and reformed.

4. Stewart Clifton writes
   October 29th, 2009 3:58 pm

   Interestingly, this is a new release of old data. Nothing that hasn’t been released before. Data is 2007 and earlier, and pretty much not even based on the current high quality, award-winning program. The fact remains that the state’s voluntary pre-K program is doing exactly what it was intended to do –prepare at-risk 4-year-olds for kindergarten and put them on a level playing field with their peers. If we remember that this is the basic hope for the program, and combine that fact with strong evidence that quality early education like this has a huge positive impact on drop-out rates, then we can all be proud of our progress on pre-k!

5. martin kennedy writes
   October 29th, 2009 4:37 pm

   The elementary schools are not “wasting” the head start. The concept of diminishing returns is real and evident here. If we started kids in school at 8, 9, or 10 years of age would there be any difference, at say 14 years of age? If we started them at 2 years of age would we see any difference? And, the relevant question is not really whether there is any difference but rather whether the benefit of any difference is worth the cost.

6. TNVolunteer73 writes
   October 29th, 2009 5:07 pm

   There was a study on Head Start and Pre K.

   After 6 months, there is no difference in academic levels of the students that did not attend and those that did attend.

7. Donna Locke writes
   October 29th, 2009 11:05 pm

   Pre-K has some advantages, but I think the program should be limited to 3 hours a day. Kids that age should not be in a structured environment for an entire school day or longer. Neither should kindergarten students.

   I read a study that found significant increase in stress hormone levels in young children after 6 hours in a schooling environment. I believe it. I’ve observed the effects. This is not good for health or development on any level.

   Our children are being harmed by these long days. Most of these pre-K situations are essentially day care. Very long hours. Later, the kindergarten students may be going to day care before and after school, shuttled several times a day. Very long hours and stressful.

   From the time I was a (very sensitive) young child, I never liked being around crowds of people for extended periods of time. I found it stressful, and I still do. Our “days” were shorter back then, in the Fifties and Sixties, and I didn’t go to nursery school, pre-K, or kindergarten. Imagine the effects of 9- and 10-hour days on children who are like me, and I know there are many. Kids need alone time, or time with just one or two close people, time to pursue their own creativity and direction.

   I started first grade at age 5, pristine and clueless, with no books at home. I did okay. More than okay.

   I oppose lengthening the school day for younger or older children. It should be cut. Also, all children born in a year, say 2009, should be classed together, as we were when I was growing up, not divided by early and later months as to when they may enter school; though back then, parents were given the choice to hold their child back if the child was born in, say, November or December. Most didn’t hold their kids back. So, many of us entered first grade with no prep at age 5. And did fine.

   I’ll draw daggers for this, and I do understand we can’t control everything that happens to the best-laid plans, but I have never understood why people have children they don’t intend to raise themselves. The hand-off of 6-week-old babies or any preschooler to virtual strangers is something I just don’t get.

8. Mark Rogers writes
   October 29th, 2009 11:32 pm

   TN Vol,

   Read the entire AP article and you will see that the undisputed argument for high-quality Pre-K is that it helps give at-risk children a better chance to be ready for school. Readiness is much more than just knowing numbers and letters. Readiness includes things like social skills and also work on how individual children learn.

   Many at-risk children grow up in homes where they are exposed to a limited number of words, much less books and other important components that assist in brain development. Tennessee’s emphasis on having Pre-K teachers who are trained to help children, as individuals, to catch up with their peers, results in children who keep up. Research shows that as children move to 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade, minor barriers become larger. A child who is behind in the 3rd grade has a dramatically higher chance of staying far behind.

   Children who are far behind are the ones most likely to start skipping school. Skipping soon turns into dropping out.

   What does that mean? Well 30% of all children in America do not finish high school. That results in a huge economic hit to our nation. It also has a profound impact on crime. 70% of people in America’s prisons do not have a high school diploma.

   So Pre-K is your best way to help at-risk children stay in school and keepign children in school is the best way to reduce crime.

   If you don’t believe me, I have over 5,000 chiefs, sheriffs and prosecutors who will back me up. For example, ask Chief Serpas, Sheriff Hall or DA General Johnson about the people they arrest, detain and prosecute. They are strong believers in Pre-K because they know that it is vital to give children the best start possible.

9. Blue writes
   October 30th, 2009 8:32 am

   It is a wonderful program. Without Pre-K, the children start behind.

10. SouthernIndie writes
    October 30th, 2009 9:20 am

    Citizens are being asked to educate, babysit, and feed
    children from age 3-20. Don’t you think that’s
    a little much?

11. TNVolunteer73 writes
    October 30th, 2009 9:30 am

    Mark Rogers

    And those same High Risk students that went to PRE K after 6 months have NO repeat NO advantage over HIGH RISK students that DID NOT attend Pre K.

    Pre K after 6 months of schooling.. is money flushed down the toilet.

12. TNVolunteer73 writes
    October 30th, 2009 9:33 am

    Mark what makes a difference is when parents start teaching the childern themselves.

    I taught both of my daugthers to read before age 2.

    I used the method in the book “Teach Your Baby to Read”

    It is now in a DVD Set…. which was not available 28 years ago.

13. Education Doctor writes
    October 30th, 2009 9:44 am

    That’s great you taught your daughters to read. Unfortunately many children don’t have parents who do that. And preK is a way to help fill in those gaps for high risk students. The fact that the benefits didn’t last past kindergarten makes me wonder what is going on in the elementary schools the students attend.

    Not to mention that even the biggest long-term impacts of the Perry Preschool program were non-cognitive. Before we call this program a waste, we need to look at other outcomes to see if it is saving us money in other ways.

14. TNVolunteer73 writes
    October 30th, 2009 9:58 am

    Education Doctor.. That is what Kindergarten is for.

    The spouse (male or Female) that earns a 2nd salary makes on average 28% of the household income.

    Which is spent paying the Income taxes on the first income.

    TN 2nd lowest taxbuden in the nation on average government (all levels) take ~47% of gross income in taxes.

    if we would lower the tax burden where ONE PARENT (does not matter which parent) could AFFORD stay home with the child until age 5 (first year of school), our nation would be much better off.

15. Blue writes
    October 30th, 2009 1:17 pm

    TNVOL
    You are so right-wing that you did not understand what Edu. Doc. was saying. For some children this is a start of life-long learning. The earlier that we get them, the more success. Most children do not have parents that know how to spell education much less help their child. If we can raise one child out of their environment, what a success story.

16. TNVolunteer73 writes
    October 30th, 2009 1:38 pm

    Blue.. Yes this is a start in learning. That is after the 1 6 months of school, has done nothing to improve their academic abilities.

    Now if you had Pre K students skipping K and 1st grade because they were prepared for school, I would agree with your’s and E.D’s assumption.

    That is not the case. We spend 16,000,000 dollars for a program that does nothing to improve academic acheivement.

17. TNVolunteer73 writes
    October 30th, 2009 1:39 pm

    Blue that is not right wing, that is reality.

18. Education Doctor writes
    October 30th, 2009 2:15 pm

    PreK is not a replacement for kindergarten. Some students start kindergarten behind on a variety of school-readiness measures. That is the reality. PreK is designed to get them up to par with more advantaged peers. And the results of this evaluation do suggest there are positive effects in kindergarten.

19. SouthernIndie writes
    October 30th, 2009 8:15 pm

    How is it that prior to private or
    public kindergarten was ever even
    available to most children in this
    state, especially those outside the
    metro areas, that children learned
    more and scored higher than they do
    today? Especially with all the
    resources, tutoring, early education
    etc.?

20. TNVolunteer73 writes
    October 30th, 2009 10:44 pm

    Education doctor.

    No it is not, the purpose of Pre K is to give babysitting for parents.

    Pre-K has been proven to give little if any advantage to childern.

    The Childern that are most prepared for School are those who had interaction with parents.

    My wife and I when our Child asked questions we would get the Brittanica off the shelf and explain.

    Why is the Sky Blue, we sat down and taught them about refraction, got the ole prism out and explained the different colors and wave lengths…

    I would take them to work with me and show them the differnt types of Leukocytes and explained what each does.

    Explained the Blood types, and antibody and antigens.

    You take time and be a parent.

    We took the time to go through a Book “Teach your Baby to Read” they were reading before age 2.. My oldest read all 8 books of the “Cronicles of Narnia” by the time she turned 5.

    We had math workcards..

    We also took time to coach softball. They did the twirling for a year. One was very involved with Girl Scouts. not fufu scouting Camping Hiking.. I remember when we went to Reelfoot Lake 7 year old girls setting up tents in the snow.

21. Blue writes
    October 31st, 2009 11:27 am

    TNVOL
    Have you read the report that TN schools have the lowest standards and test scores in the nation? When a program such as Pre-K is introduced and many students benefit from it, the GOP can not stand to help those that are in the greatest need. We are going to have to do whatever it takes to get our students educated, and the earlier that we get them the better. When the GOP does not want a program, they can find results to back whatever they want it to say. If you do not want to uses Pe-K, we live in a free society, you do not have to participate. I have a lot to say about your children reading at 2, I know exactly how that happens and you do, too. But, I will save that for another day. If you really want to so somethign for you baby, teach them sign-language. This works the same way as so call reading at 2 unless that are way above average. Most childfen do not fall into that category.

22. Donna Locke writes
    October 31st, 2009 5:53 pm

    Blue, you make a valuable point about teaching sign language to babies and toddlers. My daughter-in-law taught her two children sign language when they were a few months old, though they are not deaf. We saw many benefits from this that have continued several years later.

23. idgaf writes
    November 1st, 2009 7:05 am

    Face it since the liberals took over the education system and started social engineering rather then teaching the basics we have been in a downward spiral.

24. Emma writes
    November 1st, 2009 8:18 am

    I agree toatally with you idgaf. The PROBLEM is the home life of these kids. Instead of pumping more and more money into the education system in hopes of changing the world…… we need to change the behavior of these parents. It’s called morals.

25. Blue writes
    November 1st, 2009 7:13 pm

    When you get a child in school that has never seen a chicken leg, and you think that child is ready to start learning in K. You have no idea what you are saying. Pre-K has started so many in the right direction.

26. Edward Arnold writes
    November 1st, 2009 9:45 pm

    My two children must be the exception or Fall Hamilton and Norman Binkley are the exception. My daughter completed the second grade reading at the highest score Metro Schools can give - mid-fifth grade. She is well adjusted and “loves” school. I attribute those traits to Miss Pittman (her pre-K teacher) at Fall Hamilton. My son is in kindergarten. He began school with the skills to complete that grade (math, word recognition, spell some simple words and he can write his complete name). He “loves” school. I attribute those skills to Miss Fryer (his pre-K teacher at Norman Binkley).

    Every time I visited their pre-K classes, I noticed “all” of the children were doing well. However, to be fair, I think the difference was that there were two instructors. The teachers taught and the aides took care of other things - taking the students to lunch, teaching them basic skills: manners, being polite to each other, wiping noses, etc. The aide did as much as the teacher.

    I have no problem with pre-K. From my personal experience, it is a very valuable aide. I have a younger son, age one. I hope he will have the opportunity to attend pre-K.