Stop With The Hitler References

52 Responses to “Stop With The Hitler References”

1. TNVolunteer73 writes
   August 19th, 2009 11:45 am

   “nearly every major industrialized nation has some sort of national health care plan and none of them have the kinds of programs”

   Thousands of cancer patients dying in UK unnecessarily
   Thousands of cancer patients are dying unnecessarily each year because of delays in obtaining treatment,

   Analysis of Treatment Practices for Elderly Cancer Patients in Ontario, Canada

   OCR data demonstrated that with some cancers, such as colorectal cancer, the proportions of elderly cancer patients who were referred to cancer centers and subsequently received any cancer treatment were lower than for their younger counterparts. Figure 1A and 1B are sample age-stratified plots of referral and treatment rates for colorectal cancer, and similar plots exist for breast and lung cancers. Formal statistical analyses of these plots were not undertaken, but these findings prompted further investigations into the exact treatment practices for elderly cancer patients when they were seen at cancer centers.

2. Reality writes
   August 19th, 2009 11:48 am

   How quickly we forget.

   http://earthhopenetwork.net/Nazi_Bush.htm

   Easy to get tired of stupid Hitler analogies when it’s your idol taking the arrows, isn’t it?

3. Matthew Hurtt writes
   August 19th, 2009 11:51 am

   I’m going to agree with Reality here. I don’t personally like to compare anyone to Hitler or Nazis because it diminishes the value of comparing someone who actually is like Hitler or the Nazis.

4. SayUncle writes
   August 19th, 2009 11:56 am

   You are wrong. Nazis were wrong. Therefore, you are a Nazi.

5. The OG Ben writes
   August 19th, 2009 11:58 am

   On what planet do you people spend most of your time?

6. Drinkin' the Franklin Kool Aid writes
   August 19th, 2009 12:01 pm

   If you want a fairly detailed list with all references of Bush-hitler comparisons, emblems, etc., then check out:

   http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html

7. Beth Cravens writes
   August 19th, 2009 12:18 pm

   It doesn’t matter. It was a stupid analogy when Bush was in office and it’s stupid now.

8. Reality writes
   August 19th, 2009 12:25 pm

   It’s a shame we didn’t hear any good conscientious liberals saying it was stupid then.

   You folks do not understand that after the clouds parted, the angels sang and the one took his throne upon the kingdom of the most high, folks had been taking notes of how piss-poorly liberals behaved the last 8 years and what’s good for the goose…

9. =dan= writes
   August 19th, 2009 12:31 pm

   Sorry you didn’t hear me, Reality. I nipped that Bush = Hitler line in the bud every time I heard it among my fellow lefties for eight years.

   It was wrong then, & it’s wrong now.

   & “the other side did it too/first” doesn’t come anywhere close to an actual adequate argument.

10. Drinkin' the Franklin Kool Aid writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:33 pm

    Yep “Reality.” All of those lefty wackos with a conscience were nowhere to be found, so as far as I’m concerned - quit whining and man up - it comes with the territory.

11. Reality writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:37 pm

    Oh I don’t care if you think it’s adequate, right or anything else. It’s just a fact. Some folks are going to enjoy serving up a little payback. To paraphrase a recent American scholar and leader of men:

    Your chickenssss are coming home to rooooost.

12. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:43 pm

    I’m not indicting the entirety of the Conservative movement because some people compare Obama to Hitler. What I’m doing is looking at what they believe to be a substantive argument, and showing the falsity.

    While I didn’t start blogging until way after the hey-day of anti-war protests, and as such don’t have much online material to link back to with regards to “Bush is a Nazi” comparisons, I have generally been an opponent of the tactics of anti-war protests largely because it generally involves a bunch of dirty hippies holding up “Bushitler” signs and what not.

    I do recall criticizing those who compared the wiretapping program to Nazi Germany, but given that Bush’s extremist critics had far less media coverage than Obama’s extremist critics, its hard to come up with concrete examples.

    TNVol,

    As for cancer patients in Canada, it is entirely possible that elderly patients are much more likely to refuse treatment of their cancer and thus the number of those referred to cancer clinics is proportionally lower.

13. Mark Rogers writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:50 pm

    Sean,

    “given that Bush’s extremist critics had far less media coverage than Obama’s extremist critics,”

    You don’t mean to suggest that the mainstream media likes to highlight the excesses of the right and downplay the excesses of the left do you?

    Of course, you are right and I respect your honesty as always.

    Keep up the good work.

    Mark

14. Reality writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:52 pm

    And here’s the leader of our whiner caucus. Strike up the violins.

    Head over to Politico and watch Barney Frank’s shock and disgust that someone would show up at a town hall with a photo of OUR president (when’s the last time you heard that before jan 20?) doctored up to look like Hitler. Can you imagine they could do that to OUR president? The horror!

    This horseshit rings so hollow. I’ve said since Jan 20 I won’t do the same things to the One that were done to Bush over 8 years. But I’m sure going to get a chuckle out of watching the selective memory and outrage when others do.

15. DADvocate writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:54 pm

    Point taken, Herr Braisted.

    …it is entirely possible that elderly patients are much more likely to refuse treatment of their cancer and thus the number of those referred to cancer clinics is proportionally lower.

    And, it is entirely possible they don’t refuse treatment. No facts here. Move on, ma’am.

    The Dems just had Senator Dick Durban comparing out troops to Nazis.

    the second highest-ranking Democrat in the U.S. Senate likened the conduct of U.S. military guards at Guantanamo Bay — where no one has died — with “Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime, Pol Pot or others, that had no concern for human beings

16. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:57 pm

    Mark,

    Absolutely they do. A few cranks get together wearing tea-bags on their hats and its a national movement gaining steam to stop Obama. A million or so people march in the streets to oppose the War in Iraq, and its a small clip played before a piece on the latest tween fashion trend.

    With regard to comparisons of the Dems health care plan to Nazi Germany, its one that is being made by high level members of the Conservative movement, like Glenn Beck, and so I thought it was at least worth taking a look at.

    Reality,

    Don’t rub yourself raw patting yourself on the back.

17. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 12:58 pm

    Sean.. That is not what the Article was talking about. this was talking about people that wanted treatment and could not get the treatment.

    That was a good response, but an incorrect response.

    Why would someone that DOES NOT want treatment be in a queue waiting for treatment, if they REFUSED treatment they would have been removed from the queue.

18. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:02 pm

    NAZI = NATIONAL SOCIALIST

    Which party wants to naitonalize

    Retirment

    Education

    Energy

    Healthcare

    Utilites

    Supports a more progressive tax code

    Tax corporate profits at a higher rate.

    GOP?

    Democrat?

19. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:03 pm

    Dad,

    The quote was “If I read this [report on abuses of detainees] to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control,” he said, “you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings.”

    It was made in 2005, and yes, it was ill-advised.

20. Reality writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:03 pm

    Facts are stubborn things.

    I believe Minister of Propoganda Linda Douglass mentioned that as she asked us to turn in our neighbors for expressing opinions in disagreement with the One.

21. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:08 pm

    TNvol,

    You didn’t link to an article.

    As for the “Nationalist Socialist” part, you are forgetting that Democrats aren’t patriotic nationalist, but commie-loving globalists who support multi-culturalism and ethnic diversity.

    Lots of countries have nationalized aspects of the private sector, including Great Britain, and it didn’t lead to a subsequent attempt to conquer Europe (Britain did those things before Labor took over in the late 40s) or the mass execution of millions of people because they were Jewish, Black, Gay, Communist, Gypsy, etc…

    If all Hitler and the Nazis did was nationalize a few sectors of the economy, somehow I don’t think the “You are a Nazi” charge would have the same ring it does today.

    The fact is, the Democratic plan for health care is much closer to Switzerland than it is to Nazi Germany, Great Britain, or Canada…so if you wanna start making Swiss jokes, be my guest.

22. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:09 pm

    Facts are stubborn things.

    Which is why the Republicans continually ignore them.

23. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:10 pm

    Sean
    http://jco.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/16/3802

24. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:13 pm

    Sean

    But not all countries with exception Italy and Germany in the 1930s nationalized all of these sectors of the economy.

25. Reality writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:18 pm

    If we put a swiss miss wig on Obama we’d be turned in to the White House for abusing crossdressers.

26. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:25 pm

    TNVol,

    I hadn’t heard of the Democrats’ plans to “nationalize” utilities, or for that matter Education given the President has been a vocal proponent of charter schools (uh-oh, private-public partnership = fascism!). No plan on file to nationalize our oil/coal production. There has been an old-age insurance program for well on 70+ years, so I’ll give you that.

    The Nazis did support an aggressive child-tax credit system…but I’m pretty sure Republicans support the child tax credit too. And just about every nation on Earth has a progressive income tax of some sort, so I don’t know how that is a distinguishing factor in your analysis.

27. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:40 pm

    Maxine Waters threatens to nationalize U.S. oil industries

    For instance, about 45 million Americans rely on public power utilities for their electricity. Those utilities are nationalized - that is, they are owned and operated by government (in this case, municipal governments).

    Amidst the punditocracy’s handwringing about the supposedly unprecedented possibility of nationalization in America, Paul Krugman this week reminded his New York Times readers that nationalization is “as American as apple pie.” He noted that the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation has been nationalizing about two banks per week

    Will government intervention, or even nationalization, lead to a drop in price in, or will it stabilize, preferred shares? The uncertainty has already driven prices down for many preferred issuers.
    Will the political pressure, or restructuring, force big banks to defer dividend payments so the cash can be used for lending? Citigroup, as mentioned above, announced it will defer a portion of their preferred stock payments. Will this be the case for other Citi shares, or shares from other big banks, as well?
    Even without additional government intervention, will bank earnings decline to the point that companies will opt to defer dividend payments— something they can do, generally— if earnings are insufficient?
    All would adversely impact preferred shares, the income source for most retirment plans. Some of the risks are priced into the market now, while others could have additional impacts on price, if they occur. We’ll touch on each in more detail below.

28. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:41 pm

    Obama has expanded no child left behind, which the legislation that created NCLB was written by none other than Teddy Kennedy.

29. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:46 pm

    The second bill will be a mandatory cap-and-trade program for industrial and … This bill would also effectively nationalize California’s landmark … from electric and natural gas utilities by 9 percent below projected levels. …
    feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction

30. Clayton Farlow writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:52 pm

    Can we all just not agree that Sean Braisted is a whiny tool and call it a day?

    Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:09 pm
    Facts are stubborn things.

    Which is why the Republicans continually ignore them.

    Such the pithy retort, Sean. Score!!!

31. DADvocate writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:53 pm

    Sean, I don’t really care for the “Nazi” monicker either. And, I’m not going to call the Democratic Party “socialist”. Totalitarian is closer to the truth.

32. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:55 pm

    Those utilities are nationalized - that is, they are owned and operated by government (in this case, municipal governments).

    Oh, I guess we just differ on our definition of “nationalization”. I tend to think of it as the Federal Government taking over what was otherwise either a private entity, or even a State/Local function.

    You, however, seem to be defining it as any Government anywhere doing anything. In which case, yes, we are Nazis.

33. Emmett Flatus writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:56 pm

    The OG Ben wondered, “On what planet do you people spend most of your time?”

    It is rumoured that Barney Frank spends considerable time cruising Uranus.

34. The OG Ben writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:03 pm

    Do you right wing lunatics really think you’re accomplishing anything other than showing the world what delusion numbskulls you are?

35. Mark Rogers writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:04 pm

    Sean,

    Nice spin. But you are being a bit disingenuous.

    The impact of the protesters on swing voters has shifted the entire debate over health care. If it were just the hard right, then we would be watching the signing ceremony in the Rose Garden next week.

    Conversely, if the Russians invaded the West Coast tomorrow, it would not be hard to imagine a couple of million leftists marching against the war and demanding we apologize for having caused the Russians to attack.

    The important difference is that the current protesters, regardless of how one feels about some of their tactics (and I am one who opposes the disruptive actions) have had an impact beyond their base. The anti-war extremists did not turn public opinion against the war, the mismanagement of the Bush Administration did.

36. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:13 pm

    Conversely, if the Russians invaded the West Coast tomorrow, it would not be hard to imagine a couple of million leftists marching against the war and demanding we apologize for having caused the Russians to attack.

    Only in your world Mark, only in your world.

    The impact of the protesters on swing voters has shifted the entire debate over health care. If it were just the hard right, then we would be watching the signing ceremony in the Rose Garden next week.

    The lies and distortions have had an impact on poll numbers, as well as the general confusion that would surround a debate about a plan that has yet to come to full fruition. However, the fact is that only a handful of Senators have held up progress on this reform movement, and by “held up” I mean delayed action by a month or two.

    We’ll see just how effective the Deathers have been once Congress gets back into session. Unlike in 1993, the President isn’t going to give up on this issue, and there is too much pressure on the Caucus to allow a procedural motion like cloture be used to stop reform.

37. TNVolunteer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:19 pm

    Sean..

    there were those that protested against WW2.

38. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:27 pm

    Yep, the Republican candidate in 1940 ran against FDR’s apparent march towards war, and many Conservatives, especially those of German decent in the Midwest, wanted us to stay out of the conflict.

39. Mark Rogers writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:37 pm

    Sean,

    While I will admit to a bit of hyperbole, you know quite well that there are no small number of ‘blame America firsters’ and people who do not regard American security as worth fighting for on the Left who are as out to lunch as any ‘birther.’

    As for ‘lies and distortions,’ how do you know that the advocates for single payer or other national health plan won’t use this as the wedge to end private insurance? Given the strength of the hard left in the Democratic Caucus, why shouldn’t we take people like the President seriously when he talks about prefering single payer? Now I know that this quote in context includes something about this not being possible in the current conditions. But would not such fundamental reform as the current proposals involve qualify as changing those ‘conditions?’

    After all, didn’t candidate Obama ridicule John McCain for suggesting making health benefits taxable and then, once in office, speak favorably of doing just that?

    What ‘reform’ proposals would it take to get you to defend the free market and the rights of individuals? Fines for failure to hit specific health targets? Prohibition of ‘unhealthy foods?’ I am just curious where you think government might be going too far.

40. Reality writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:49 pm

    Is this still going on? Jeez, it’s as long as a Chip Forrester bitch-fest. Look, people can say anything they want about the Obamamessiah. At least until the dear leader decides to outlaw it.

    Until then, deal.

41. autoegocrat writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:54 pm

    This thread is a good example of why the Republican Party is becoming a regional party.

42. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 2:59 pm

    Given the strength of the hard left in the Democratic Caucus, why shouldn’t we take people like the President seriously when he talks about prefering single payer?

    He can prefer whatever he likes. I’d prefer to be making a lot more money, but that doesn’t mean its going to happen. The bill does what the bill does, underlying motivations are irrelevant. Bush joked about preferring a dictatorship if he were the dictator, that does not in fact make him one.

    What ‘reform’ proposals would it take to get you to defend the free market and the rights of individuals?

    There is no “free market” in Health Care. The traditional co-equal nature of supply and demand doesn’t apply for numerous reasons; one because the “purchaser” does so often through their employer. Two, because in the most expensive scenarios such as an emergency, the purchaser isn’t able to price shop his medical care providers. Third because the doctor is perceived to have more authority to dictate necessary medical procedures due to an ignorance by the general public of what is and is not necessary.

    Now, if I could choose between an unaccountable profit motivated insurance company who is chosen for me by my employer, or a non-profit Government program which would presumably be under pressure to perform by people who have to go up for re-election every couple years; I’d prefer the latter.

    Under this plan, I’ll still probably be stuck with my current provider (BC/BS of Pennsylvania) and so the benefits to me will be marginal at best (especially considering I rarely ever use my insurance).

43. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 3:02 pm

    Look, people can say anything they want about the Obamamessiah.

    No shit, and people will be able to critique the substance (when present) of those arguments.

44. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 3:05 pm

    Mark,

    BTW, you said “Given the strength of the hard left in the Democratic Caucus,” but if they are so strong, we wouldn’t be arguing over a competitive public option versus expanding co-ops; rather, we’d be arguing over Single-payer or Socialized medical care.

45. Reality writes
    August 19th, 2009 3:05 pm

    I’d rather talk about Jason Mumpower and the Humane Society.

46. Donna Locke writes
    August 19th, 2009 3:19 pm

    Look, if Obama doesn’t get what he wants, he will just expand Medicaid again, as he already has. If you have two dollars to rub together, you’re fish in a barrel as long as this guy is in office.

47. TNVoluneer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 3:56 pm

    Sean.. Obama said “If you wantto see what I am going to do is look at who I surround myself”

    Those that surround him have said that the Public option is only a tool to BANKRUPT private insurance leaving the public option as the ONLY OPTION.

    Not my words their’s.

    http://www.verumserum.com/?p=5660

    His advisors from whom he surrounds himself reviels what the goal is. Just like Obama said.

    Or are you calling Obama liar about this too?

48. Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 4:08 pm

    Where is the evidence that Obama has “surrounded” himself by Jacob Hacker, a Yale Professor, or besides being from the same state, Jan Schakowsky?

    We have public universities and private universities; public schools and private schools; public sanitation and private sanitation…the idea that having a public version of a private product automatically leads to the private product’s destruction is not born out by history or the facts.

49. TNVoluneer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 5:49 pm

    These are the people that ran his campain. Jan Schakowsky was Obama’s campaign co-chair

    Jacob Hacker is on the board of Campain for America’s Future… 500K donor to the Obama campain..

    Both are people who “Obama has Surrounded himself” have stated that the Public option only purpose is to bankrupt Private insurance plans.

    And Obama said “If you want too see what I am going to do is look at who I surround myself”

    Even in the Video.. Obama said the “Public Option was the Bridge to the single payer system.”

    Sean You can choose not to see it.. that is your option, but if it walks like a goose, honks like a Goose, and swims like a goose it is most likely a goose.

50. TNVoluneer73 writes
    August 19th, 2009 6:06 pm

    Sean Braisted writes
    August 19th, 2009 1:08 pm
    TNvol,

    As for the “Nationalist Socialist” part, you are forgetting that Democrats aren’t patriotic nationalist,

    The Democrat’s are not Patriotic Nationalist..

    Is that why the Democrat leadership said it is “UnAmerican to oppose healthcare Reform”

    That is a Darn good example of NATIONALISIC PATRIOTISM…

    GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED CHARTER SCHOOLS are Nationalized education.

    THE ACTIVITIES OF THE INDIVIDUAL MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO CLASH WITH THE INTERESTS OF THE COMMUNITY, BUT MUST TAKE PLACE WITHIN ITS CONFINES AND BE FOR THE GOOD OF ALL ..

    Community Orginization for Democrats = good

    Community Orginization in oppostition of Democrats = UnAmerican.. and they should be reported to the White house ….

    WE DEMAND THE NATIONALIZATION OF ALL BUSINESSES WHICH HAVE BEEN AMALGAMATED (INTO TRUSTS).

    Nationalization of Energy, Banks, Healthcare, Retirment, Utilities, Transportation.

    GM, Bank of American Citigroup Crysler, ect..

    WE DEMAND THAT THE STATE SHALL SHARE IN THE PROFITS OF LARGE INDUSTRIES.

    Since January, the US Government has become Stockholders in CitiGroup, GM, Crysler, Bank Of America, AIG, Goldman Sachs, ect…ect..

    WE DEMAND A LAND-REFORM SUITABLE TO OUR NATIONAL REQUIREMENTS, THE PASSING OF A LAW FOR THE CONFISCATION OF LAND FOR COMMUNAL PURPOSES; THE ABOLITION OF INTEREST ON MORTGAGES, AND PROHIBITION OF ALL SPECULATION IN LAND.

    Fannie And Freddie, The creation of Bundled Realestae Securities to hide bad investments…

    …THE STATE SHALL ORGANIZE THOROUGHLY THE WHOLE CULTURAL SYSTEM OF THE NATION . . . THE CONCEPTION OF THE STATE IDEA (THE SCIENCE OF CITIZENSHIP)

    AmeriCorp…

    IT IS THE DUTY OF THE STATE TO HELP RAISE THE STANDARD OF THE NATION’S HEALTH BY PROVIDING HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS.

    Public Option.

    From the “Twenty-Five Point” Programme of the German National Socialist Workers Party, authored by Adolf Hitler and others on February 24, 1920. (Konrad Heiden’s translation in A History of National Socialism)

    Sean you have lost the argument.

51. Fabian writes
    August 19th, 2009 10:02 pm

    Sean, you are my hero.

52. SayUncle » Nazi socialism butzi killing people* writes
    August 20th, 2009 7:53 am

    [...] Oh, internets, is there anything we won’t argue about, no matter how stupid. Such as why your guy more closely resembles a Nazi than my guy. [...]