Study: Permit Holders Have Killed Cops

18 Responses to “Study: Permit Holders Have Killed Cops”

1. Emmett Flatus writes
   July 20th, 2009 2:43 pm

   Poor Jeffie is really grasping at straws with this one.

2. TNVoter1776 writes
   July 20th, 2009 2:48 pm

   That does not indicated whether those “killings” were justified - it just leaves us to assume that they were not.

3. Kat Coble writes
   July 20th, 2009 2:51 pm

   Conditions and circumstances for each of the shootings were….?

   I expect that concealed carry people will shoot other people. Because many of them (CC folks) are granted a permit because their lives are in danger, either from a stalker, ex-spouse or in the course of their job duties.

   To say someone who was granted the license for a gun for the purposes of self-protection then exercised use of the gun to protect herself is cause for alarm seems ridiculous.

4. SayUncle writes
   July 20th, 2009 2:52 pm

   Poor jeffy. reduced to quoting VPC ’studies’.

5. Bill Hobbs writes
   July 20th, 2009 3:11 pm

   How many permit holders are there nationwide? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? That’s a pretty low percentage, actually. It seems to indicate a high level of restraint and responsible gun-handling among permit holders.

   What is the number of people - cops and otherwise - killed by armed criminals over the same time period? I daresay it was MORE and probably a higher percentage of the overall armed criminal population were shooters in such homicide cases.

   Jeff, before you try to make a group of people look bad with a few statistics, you might wanna do some math and a little deeper level of critical thinking so that you don’t aim, pull the trigger, and blow a hole in your own credibility.

6. Southern Beale writes
   July 20th, 2009 3:16 pm

   Oops!! Better make it a felony offense to WRITE about the list now!

   I wonder if any of those killings were committed by the felons who were erroneously given CCW permits? OOPS! We aren’t supposed to talk about that!

   Nothing to see here, move along, folks …. just pay your respects to the NRA on your way out the door.

7. The OG Ben writes
   July 20th, 2009 3:30 pm

   But, Hobbs, you argue that Tennesseans should pack heat in O’Charley’s because of the possibility of a shooting incident in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

   How many of these incidents have there been? How many restaurants in the United States serve alcohol?

   You see, Hobbs, I think the odds of there being a shooting in a restaurant that serves alcohol are less than the odds of a permit holder shooting someone . . .

   But you argue that restaurants that serve alcohol are unsafe but permit holders are harmless.

   In other words, Hobbs, you are either ignorant or a hypocrite.

8. Bill Hobbs writes
   July 20th, 2009 3:30 pm

   From the article quoted by the Scene:

   “It is an outrage that in a year thus far defined by gun violence-from massacres, to the murder of police, to hate crimes-the U.S. Senate is preparing to consider an amendment that would dramatically weaken federal and state gun laws.”

   Er, wait. Bzzt! Illogic Alert!

   The article frets that legislation is proposed that would “dramatically weaken” federal and state gun laws, despite a year “defined by gun violenece-from massacres, to the murder of police, to hate crimes.”

   So, the writer admits that our strong gun laws have not prevented “a year defined by gun violenece-from massacres, to the murder of police, to hate crimes.”

   It is insane to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

   Our strong anti-gun laws have not done a thing to reduce gun violence because gun violence is perpetrated largely by law-breakers - criminals who don’t follow the gun laws any more than they follow the law banning rape, robbery and murder.

   Thus, stronger gun laws only serve to weaken the defense of the law-abiding folks, making them actually more vulnerable to the criminals. The result is predictable: more gun violence, massacres, etc.

   Frankly, I wish the number of criminals shot dead by carry permit holders was a lot higher. The higher the better. Dead criminals don’t break the gun laws. Or the laws against rape, robbery and murder. The number of people killed by dead criminals in the last two years is zero.

   If one of Jerome Barrett’s early victims had been armed and had shot him dead, Marcia Trimble would be alive today.

   But the Violence Policy Center would refer to Barrett not as “scumbag criminal shot dead by law abiding person who refused to be a defenseless victim” but merely as a “private citizen” - and kneejerk liberal media anti-gunners like Jeff Woods would dutifully regurgitate it without examining the facts or wondering of perhaps the “private citizen” shot dead was actually the kind of person who, as they say in Texas, “needed killin’.”

   What is it with liberal anti-gunners that they care more about saving the lives of criminal thugs than they do about letting honest, law-abiding folks defend themselves? Why do libs think a dead criminal is a bad result, but a dead victim is good because it means they didn’t have a gun?

9. gotta wonder writes
   July 20th, 2009 3:50 pm

   I call BS.

   There was a total of 4 shooters who killed the 7 officers.

   It appears to me that 4 of the 7 were killed by people who should haven’t even been permitted at the time of the shooting.

10. TNVolunteer73 writes
    July 20th, 2009 3:53 pm

    This is nationwide.. many of them are justifiable shootings, example police officers that instigated the violence

    even if you take the full 44 that is 44 of how many million permit holders nation wide.

    Which is a lower homicide rate than police officers.

11. The OG Ben writes
    July 20th, 2009 6:17 pm

    Hobbs, you are the king of the strawman argument. Your overwrought and breathless answer did not answer my question. I will even narrow the scope for you.

    How many shootings have happened in Tennessee restaurants that serve alcohol? How many Tennessee restaurants serve alcohol?

    You refuse to answer because you know the odds of a shooting in these establishments is almost zero.

    Bill Hobbs, you are a con man.

    TNVolunteer, it’s very instructive that you argue that police shootings can be justified.

12. Drinkin' the Franklin Kool Aid writes
    July 20th, 2009 8:18 pm

    Are people still reading the Scene as something informative as an alternative to the NitWitessean?

    The Scene should just stick with the “News of the Weird” and the various GLBT ads - the ads have MUCH better writing.

13. nedwilliams writes
    July 20th, 2009 10:38 pm

    “How many shootings have happened in Tennessee restaurants that serve alcohol? How many Tennessee restaurants serve alcohol?”

    No, the proper question is, “How many restaurants that serve alcohol are not within the purview of the U.S. Constitution’s 2nd Amendment?”

14. John Locke writes
    July 21st, 2009 12:20 am

    Would you also like to lecture us on the rights of private property owners, Ned?

15. TNVolunteer73 writes
    July 21st, 2009 6:43 am

    TV

    There are many UNJUSTIFIED police shootings by on and off duty officers, sheriffs, and deptuties.

16. TNVolunteer73 writes
    July 21st, 2009 6:53 am

    The OG Ben writes
    July 20th, 2009 3:30 pm
    But, Hobbs, you argue that Tennesseans should pack heat in O’Charley’s because of the possibility of a shooting incident in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

    In a different thread, I posted 10 incedents of murders that accured in RESTURANTS, and that was only in Davidson County.

    Do you think those 14 people would have like to have had the power to defend themselves, or maybe their cowworkers and patrons would have like to have had the opportunity to stop them.

    Are you saying that those, 14 people were expendable due to your petty fears.

17. TNVolunteer73 writes
    July 21st, 2009 6:54 am

    11 Days and not one Wild West shootout between CCW holders.

    402 DUIs

    Nuff said,.

18. Bill Hobbs writes
    July 21st, 2009 8:07 am

    OGBen - there have been more innocent people shot to death by criminals in restaurants and bars than there have been innocent people or criminals shot to death by carry-permitted gun owners in such establishments.

    One such incident locally and recent: Ben Goeser, shot and killed at Johnny’s Sports Bar on April 2. His wife, a carry permit holder, left her gun in the car because she obeys the law.

    What’s clear from the stats is that permit holders shoot very few people. What isn’t clear from Woods’ story is how many of the shootings were justified.

    My only concern about restaurants that post “no guns” signs is that they are advertising to the bad guys that the people inside are more likely to be unarmed, making it more likely that restaurant will be targeted for criminal activity than a nearby restaurant that doesn’t post a “no guns” sign.

    Given the abundance of restaurants in Nashville, when taking my family out to eat, I’ll chose the one that doesn’t post a “no guns” sign over the one that does post a “no guns” sign every time, in order to tilt the odds in my favor.