feed icon

Bredesen On The Cultural Divide On Guns

By Kleinheider Posted on May 30, 2009 at 4:36 pm

Newsweek’s Jon Meacham speaks with our governor about his veto of the guns in bars bill and the upstate New York upbringing that taught him that guns and alcohol don’t mix:

Bredesen is trying to find a middle ground between those extremes, as is Obama. The reflexive liberal reaction is to deplore any compromise on guns, but Bredesen’s musings on the issue bear consideration. “There seems to often be a presumption that the rational norm is a European-like careful regulation of guns, and that people who feel differently are a cultural phenomenon that needs explaining,” the governor wrote me in an e-mail. “I would suggest that it is cultural on both sides: that strong anti-gun advocates can be just as culturally biased and irrational as the most avid gun-toters. I enjoy pointing out to my more liberal friends that when they want to (e.g. choice v. right to life issues) they can happily find justification for their (and my) position in rights emanating from implied privacy rights lurking in the penumbra of our Constitution, but where they disagree (e.g. on guns) they are perfectly happy to wave off or reinterpret the clear language in the Bill of Rights.” He wrote these words near a gun cabinet that still holds his .22 from that distant birthday—a reminder, in a way, that if you are going to have a gun, you need a Mr. Natoli.

permalink

Comments

27 Responses to “Bredesen On The Cultural Divide On Guns”

  1. Ben writes
    May 30th, 2009 5:07 pm

    As I’ve said repeatedly, I support the right to own guns, but I don’t think there’s a right to carry guns in bars.

    Sounds like that’s what Bredesen is saying.

  2. dontcallmemikey writes
    May 30th, 2009 5:12 pm

    Guns in bars, wrong. Guns in restaurants for families THAT ALSO serve as bars - unbelievably stupid.

  3. TennRod writes
    May 30th, 2009 7:24 pm

    What’s this? Rational, intelligent, thoughtful, complex, nuanced discussion of an issue that is usually framed only in apocalyptic either-or terms? A thinking man in public office?

    You know, the people of Tennessee ought to fall on their knees and be thankful for Bredesen. And while they’re down there, they out to try and figure out a way to find someone half as bright to represent them in the General Assembly. That body is, person for person, the most embarrassing collection of nitwits extant today. And I mean that in a totally bipartisan way. Democrats and Republicans are on equal foting as far as suckage is concerned.

    Yes, the members of our General Assembly are truly dismal. They are captives of the sleazy lobbyists. They are almost without exception second-raters who are sent to Nashville because they are marginal-at-best if not outright failures in their own professions. They are easily stampeded by noisy, bullying fringe minorities. You compare these millstone-around-our-necks losers to the much higher quality statewide electeds we have seen — Bredesen, Alexander, Corker, Thompson, Frist, Sasser, Gore, Baker, Keefauver — national figures, all — and you have to wonder: Why can’t this state, with its wealth of talent and a pool of successful and brilliant people in business, medicine, education, law, industry, entertainment and other fields…why can’t we elect some people even above the mean to our General Assembly? Are Campfield and Borchert and Niceley and Jackson and Evans and Harper (fill in all the rest of the names) really the best we have to offer? Surely not.

    This is a question way beyond the guns issue. Wy can’t we have accomplished, intelligent, ethical, successful and thoughtful people in our state legislature? Why are we saddled with these underachievers?

  4. Ben writes
    May 30th, 2009 9:41 pm

    Amen, TennRod. Amen.

  5. Glen Dean writes
    May 31st, 2009 9:26 am

    Guns in bars, wrong. Guns in restaurants for families THAT ALSO serve as bars - unbelievably stupid.

    I’m so glad that law breakers are kind enough to abide by this reasoning.

  6. Ben writes
    May 31st, 2009 10:38 am

    I’ll ask you again, Glen. Name me one “family restaurant with a bar” that has been shot up by some crazy in all the years that Tennessee has banned guns in these establishments.

  7. dan writes
    May 31st, 2009 2:05 pm

    In 1979 near the Tennessee River in Perry County, a small mom and pop restuarant/bar had an incident. A jealous husband walked in and murdered his wife and her lover. Im sure there are other cases as well across the state.

  8. autoegocrat writes
    May 31st, 2009 2:22 pm

    If Bredesen would express himself like this more often, he would be a far more popular figure among his opponents. I don’t agree with his conclusions at all, but it’s definitely refreshing to hear, as TennRod said, “rational, intelligent, thoughtful, complex, nuanced discussion of an issue that is usually framed only in apocalyptic either-or terms.” Perhaps he should start his own blog.

    That said, there are 37 other states that already allow guns in bars, and they have so far failed to descend into some form of Wild West anarchy.

  9. TNVolunteer73 writes
    May 31st, 2009 3:23 pm

    the rational on Guns in bars does not make sense.

    According to your logic it is illegal to drink and drive. Then why would we allow Bars and Resturants with Bars to have Parking lots.

  10. TNVolunteer73 writes
    May 31st, 2009 3:30 pm

    Ben

    Captian Dees on Lebanon Pike Sarah Jackson 17 and manager killed Killed.

    McDonalds lebanon Road… 3 killed 1 wounded

    Shoneys on Murfreesboro RD 5 killed.

    Regal Cinimas Lebanon Road 2 killed 1 wounded.

    Those are only the ones that People I know have been involved.

    1 was a Girl I coached in Softball

    1 was a girl that carpooled with my Daughter to Hume Fogg.

    all 3 did not have the opportunity to defend themselves…

  11. dontcallmemikey writes
    May 31st, 2009 3:40 pm

    Sorry for your family pain, TN Volunteer73.

    Tell me, would any of them been able to protect themselves? Would they have had the time/opportunity to do so?

  12. dontcallmemikey writes
    May 31st, 2009 3:41 pm

    btw - those are not accusatory questions, they’re sincere ones.

  13. Actually... writes
    May 31st, 2009 4:04 pm

    That is the absurdity of the argument of the proponents of this bill. Are the permit holders going to where bright orange jackets into bars with “I Am Carrying” on them, so as to give notice to the criminals they should leave? Let’s just assume, for argument’s sake, that the permit holders are so skilled at their gunplay that they never miss, and can draw and shoot faster than Johnny Ringo. Won’t these same criminals just escalate to the (semi)automatic weapons they buy at the local gun show? I am looking forward to an arms race inside Fridays.

  14. TNVolunteer73 writes
    May 31st, 2009 4:16 pm

    DontcallmeMikey

    yes.. one of the McDonalds employees fought with the Killer, he was the one that survived.. the killer had run out of bullets.

  15. TNVolunteer73 writes
    May 31st, 2009 4:19 pm

    Acctualluy

    You dont have to be quick on the draw…

    Remember.. the Words fo Wayatt Earp.. “Take your time in a hurry” And “Accuracy is better than speed”

    Many times just as in my Daughters case.. the presence of armed resistance… Criminals choose retreat vs stand and fight.

    Crimials are usually Criminals because they are lazy.

  16. bcarrolla writes
    May 31st, 2009 7:47 pm

    Governor Bredesen did the right thing. Now if those grandstanding nitwits in the legislature will only do the same. I don’ t always agree with TennRod, but this time he is right.

  17. Ben writes
    May 31st, 2009 8:13 pm

    I’m sorry for you pain. TNVolunteer, but none of those are establishments that serve alcohol. Permit holder may carry in those now.

    So far, proponents of guns in bars have offered one example from 30 years ago, and that’s an example that supports the arguments of law enforcement officials against guns in bars. These rare shooting incidents happen so quickly that a bystander doesn’t have time to draw his weapon.

    Again, tragic incidents do happen, but we should be realistic that they are rare. Six million Tennesseans live their lives daily without carrying firearms. Most of us live our entire lives without ever needing a gun.

  18. Ken Mitchell writes
    May 31st, 2009 11:02 pm

    Ben said: “Most of us live our entire lives without ever needing a gun.”

    You need not carry a firearm each day because a great number of other people DO carry a firearm on a regular basis. Not all of them are police and soldiers. You’re “free-riding” on their ability to defend themselves - and by extension, you and yours.

    States that allow concealed carry have far lower crime rates than places like California (where I live) that does not. You may not like guns - but even if you never own one, you are safer because your neighbors CAN choose to carry a concealed firearm.

  19. Charles.L writes
    May 31st, 2009 11:26 pm

    Here’s the problem with a ban on concealed carry in restaurants. You’re allowed to carry most other places. But if there’s any chance at all you’ll end up in a restaurant, you’re going to have to leave your gun at home or in the car, because you’re not allowed to have it in the restaurant. So you end up not carrying it at all, which kind of defeats the purpose of even having a concealed carry permit.

  20. oldrip writes
    May 31st, 2009 11:30 pm

    I just don’t get the anti-gun folks. I carry a gun precisely because I don’t know where I might need one. Are y’all telling me it’s impossible that I might become endangered in a restaurant that has a bar? If so — How the Hell do you know?!
    Now, I have a legal permit to carry my weapon, and I know the rules. Thus, I don’t drink when in those restaurants (in fact, I try not to go into those restaurants, but it’s not always my choice!). Why is it you assume I can’t have dinner in O’Charley’s without wine or beer? They serve other things, don’t they?
    There are more than 30 states that allow carry-permit holders to carry their weapons into ALL restaurants (barring individual business’s — stupid, in my opinion — choice). Don’t you think, if the gun violence there was escalated, you’d have learned about it be now in the reflexively anti-gunmedia?!
    It’s funny — a lot of folks want wine to be sold in grocery stores because “everybody else does it” (in fact, the last state to permit it was Massachusetts way back in 1984). But, when a similar number of states allow restaurant-carry of firearms, those same folks want to ignore that.
    Hypocrisy? I think so. Or, at least, dishonest argument.

  21. Rah writes
    June 1st, 2009 5:25 am

    Crime happens anywhere so a CCW holder carries his gun everywhere.

    Recently the NRA held their convention in Phoenix. It so happens that many of the places to eat also served alcohol. In order to serve the people attending the convention, the legislature had to withdraw the liquor license so the people attending the convention could go to eat.

    This was silly all because they had a law probibiting carry where alcohol could be consumed.

    CCW holders tend to very repsonsible so are careful not to consume alcohol while carrying. Why should a consumer not be allow to enter an establishment to eat where they serve alcohol?

    The presecense of alcohol does not create an irrestible urge to drink, otherwise it would be abnned. So if we truxt CCW holders to carry extend the trust into restaurants

  22. SayUncle » Bredesen on guns writes
    June 1st, 2009 7:43 am

    [...] requires local chief law enforcement officers to approve NFA transfers. And he’s even got some decent stuff to say on the right to arms. I’m still trying to figure out why he vetoed the restaurant carry [...]

  23. Mack writes
    June 1st, 2009 8:06 am

    Good Lord. I owned a bar. When people drink too much, they can get overly sensitive, and that can escalate to violence. In other words, drunk people fight. Drunk people with guns might decide to shoot it out. Other people nearby are definitely NOT safer regardless if they are armed or not.

    It isn’t the responsible gun owners I worry about.

  24. Reality writes
    June 1st, 2009 8:26 am

    Give me a break , we’re all safe because fewer than 4% of the population cart guns with them everywhere they go.

    That doesn’t make any sense.

  25. Rich writes
    June 1st, 2009 9:18 pm

    Dan @ 2:05 PM wrote:

    “In 1979 near the Tennessee River in Perry County, a small mom and pop restuarant/bar had an incident. A jealous husband walked in and murdered his wife and her lover. Im sure there are other cases as well across the state.”

    I don’t see how a law against guns in “bars” would have stopped this. The jealous husband was going to get to the door and see that it was a bar and either not go in or leave his gun outside? He went with the intent to kill and I doubt that he cared if it was against the law to bring a gun into the bar becasue if I remember right it’s against the law to kill also.

    Mack has a much better rationale in that people in bars ocassionaly get drunk and stupid and things sometimes happen. I have read cases of cops in NY City who are supposed to always carry doing stupid things after drinking in a bar including shooting people.

    I don’t know what the answer is to this one. I have the personal experience when in Phoenix going to a wild west restaurant and amusement park that all gund had to be checked at the door. Saloons in the old west use to do this also just because people get drunk and stupid.

  26. Tony writes
    June 2nd, 2009 11:14 pm

    In NH where I live it is legal to carry in bars and it has not been a problem. There is no law against drinking while carrying although if you got drunk and misused the gun you would be in BIG trouble.

    About two years ago a patron in a bar ended up having to use his firearm to defend himself and others.

    It was a legitimate shoot. The person who started it did not have a gun in the bar. He went out to his car, retrieved it, and came back shooting. The bar patron was carrying in the bar and shot the perpetrator. The perpetrator and his accomplice were arrested.

    This was in Manchester in a bar on Elm St which is in an urban area. There are some bars in the area that tend to have fights.

    You can get a summary of the story at:

    http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Gunfight%20at%20bar%20leaves%20one%20wounded%2C%20another%20in%20custody&articleId=858db55b-f7c2-4dd2-ba58-5f99976fee2b

    Getting the full article would cost $2.50.

  27. Tony writes
    June 2nd, 2009 11:24 pm

    Also…

    I always carry when it is legal, which is pretty much always here. I expect and certainly hope to make it through my life without having to use a gun to shoot anyone.

    I am not crazy. If I could predict when I would need the gun I would avoid the situation! My goal is personal protection, not shooting people. The problem is that sometimes people end up in unexpected situations where their life is threatened. I just want to be prepared.

    I see this as no different than having a couple of good quality fire extinguishers in my home, carrying a first aid kit in my car, and basic survival supplies when I go in the woods. In these cases as well I expect and hope never to need these things. Just being prepared.

    Another commenter contrasted the purpose of a car and their view of the purpose of a gun. The purpose of a legally carried concealed handgun is not killing people. It is to protect people from an unlawful use of deadly force. The goal is to stop the threat.

    That is needed as much or more in an urban environment as in a rural one. While I now live in NH I have lived in big cities.

Leave a Reply




Partly Cloudy

The Collective

The Latest from NashvillePost.com

Archives