TN Firearms Association On The Warpath

By Kleinheider Posted on May 29, 2009 at 11:57 pm

The Tennessee Firearms Association is seeking to publicly identify each law enforcement officer and prosecutor who attended Gov. Phil Bredesen’s veto of a bill to allow people with handgun carry permits to take their weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.

SEE ALSO: Richard Locker

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Comments

171 Responses to “TN Firearms Association On The Warpath”

Emmy Lou writes
May 30th, 2009 2:09 am

Here’s hoping they also publish a list of every establishment that puts up a “No Guns” sign on its door; then I’ll know where to (continue to) feel comfortable eating and drinking! So handy!
"No Guns Allowed" writes
May 30th, 2009 2:43 am

Restaurants that put up “No Guns Allowed” signs will be MORE dangerous to patronize, as the thugs will know the clientele are less likely to be armed and therefore are easier targets for robbery.

I won’t take my family to a restaurant that puts up a “No Guns Allowed” sign.
Shane writes
May 30th, 2009 7:56 am

Hey, “No Guns Allowed,” I have a legitimate question:

Since guns are currently not allowed in restaurants and bars (with no sign needed), why aren’t the “thugs” already taking daily advantage of these “easy targets”?

By your reckoning, a visit to Ruby Tuesday’s is already fraught with peril and a serious risk to your health and safety (and that’s BEFORE you order the chili-cheese fries). So, where do you take the family to eat currently? The snack bar at the gun show?
"No Guns Allowed" writes
May 30th, 2009 9:21 am

Shane, think for a minute before you type. Once the law changes, a “No Guns” sign is an announcement to thugs that “our patrons are defenseless.”

There are lots of restaurants I don’t take my family to. Anything in East Nashville or North Nashville or Antioch/Hickory Hollow area of Nashville, other high-crime-rate areas of town.

A restaurant in those areas hangs up a “No Guns” sign might as well give its patrons bibs with targets on them.
JaStep writes
May 30th, 2009 10:23 am

It’s time for the 6 MILLION Tennesseans that do not have handgun carry permits to stand up and tell the Tennessee Firearms Association, “NO MORE!”

I support every single law enforcement official that opposes guns in bars. Just as they do, I support responsible gun ownership.

Threaten all you like, Tennessee Firearms Association. I won’t vote for a single elected official that supports guns in bars.
Support Sheriff Luttrell writes
May 30th, 2009 10:45 am

Yet among those standing behind the Democratic governor when he signed the veto was Shelby County Sheriff Mark Luttrell.

“I do support the veto, for all the right reasons,” the Republican from Tennessee’s most populous county told reporters after the event.

“I’m an advocate for gun ownership and I’m a gun owner,” he said. “But I do think there’s a reason for restrictions.”
Boscos at Gunpoint » LIBERADIO(!) writes
May 30th, 2009 12:05 pm

[...] from the AP via Kleinheider, the Tennessee Firearms Association exhibits their true beliefs - they only value your personal [...]
Drew writes
May 30th, 2009 12:07 pm

This bill legalized what people are already doing. Under current law it’s illegal to walk into Wal-Mart because they sell bear. You know it’s not illegal to drink in your house and have a gun, I wonder how that’s been working out.
JaStep writes
May 30th, 2009 1:11 pm

How many domestic violence cases involving guns do we have on Tennessee each year? Ask spouses that get shot how well that’s working.
Blake writes
May 30th, 2009 1:29 pm

How many domestic violence cases involving guns do we have on Tennessee each year? Ask spouses that get shot how well that’s working.

Exactly. You should ask them. Also ask the ones who successfully have defended themselves by being legally armed. They will say it’s working out quite well.
Rob Huddleston writes
May 30th, 2009 1:40 pm

JaStep -

I am present at the domestic violence docket of at least one county nearly every week of the year, so I can answer your question.

VERY, VERY FEW. Most domestic assaults involve fists - probably in the range of 60%. After that are angry words, threats to harm self or others, etc. That takes up a huge chunk of what’s left. When a weapon is used, it is almost always a knife (ranging from a pen knife or pocket knife all the way up to a machete). Once in a blue moon, you may have a tazer or a gun of some sorts, but its rare, along with assaults by shovels, barstools, and cans of ravioli (all of which are real cases I have been involved in).

Cheers,

Rob
Hans Gruber writes
May 30th, 2009 2:43 pm

Rob, you drooling idiot, the argument isn’t about how many spouses are killed by guns. The argument is that some spouses are killed by guns.

Blake, you dickless wonder, do you want to arm the entire fucking world?

Face it, you gun-toting, nutless wonders are twisted. You get tiny little chubbies by thinking that you might get to play John McClane and save Bonnie Bedilla from the bad guys. Grow the fuck up, you pantywaists.
JaStep writes
May 30th, 2009 3:17 pm

The guns in bars proponents have yet to give me an example of a TENNESSSEE bar being shot up by a homicidal maniac. Could it be that they have no rational reason for wanting to pack heat in bars?
Harrison writes
May 30th, 2009 3:23 pm

The root question is so obvious: On what planet does Guns + Alcohol make sense? The fact that these clowns are even arguing about it is absurd.
Ben writes
May 30th, 2009 3:41 pm

Exactly, what kind of moron even tries to argue that it’s a good idea to have guns in bars. BTW, I checked. There are only 220,000 permit holders in Tennessee. Fewer than we thought. Just a handful of wingnuts really.
govskeptic writes
May 30th, 2009 4:18 pm

Hans needs to realize where he’s at with the language. His statements shown above indicates he’s put either alot of beer or cheap wine into the old thinking cap. One must understand we’re talking about our law abiding, ethics following legislature with this issue, So, just chill and “PULL YOUR PANTS UP”.
Donna Locke writes
May 30th, 2009 5:14 pm

This proves the Tennessee Firearms Association has lost it. Trying to put a bulls-eye on prosecutors and law enforcement officers. You fools. My brother, a former prosecutor, already has to carry a gun to protect himself from criminals he once put behind bars — FOR YOU! And when the man who murdered my sister was up for parole, the prosecutors and judge had to be warned. We all had to be warned. So all these folks need is for you dummies to add to the threats they already face — FOR YOU!

Y’all have totally lost it. I tell you what, pool your money and buy yourselves a bar and liability insurance and let in all the gun carriers you want and stay in there with them with the alcohol flowing. Put the rest of your bodies where your mouths are.
Shane writes
May 30th, 2009 5:38 pm

Hello again, “No Guns Allowed.” Actually I do think before I type. It’s an old habit.

However, I note you still didn’t answer my question.

Are you suggesting that the bands of marauding “thugs” you currently imagine to be sweeping over the state are unaware that guns are not allowed in your friendly neighborhood Applebee’s? Is that why they haven’t been crashing through the windows and shooting up the place and taking your purses and wallets? The lack of a sign reminding gun owners to not bring their guns inside is the only thing that keeps me from getting assaulted by a “thug” while out with the family at TGI Fridays?

If I recall, there is such a sign at Neyland Stadium. I’ve never known a band of “thugs” to storm the place and hold everyone there at gunpoint. Of course, it did feel that way a few times during Spurrier visits.

So, if that’s the case, then wasn’t the change in law pretty much unnecessary? Since there doesn’t appear to be any data to support the idea that a visit to Chili’s Grill & Bar is going to put your life in danger (other than the menu, of course), why make the change and force business owners to “endanger” their customers by putting up this sign you fear so much?
dontcallmemikey writes
May 30th, 2009 5:48 pm

Shane wrote:
Since there doesn’t appear to be any data to support the idea that a visit to Chili’s Grill & Bar is going to put your life in danger (other than the menu, of course), why make the change and force business owners to “endanger” their customers by putting up this sign you fear so much?

“Two men are dead and another man is in police custody after a shooting at a Chili’s restaurant Wednesday night. Miami-Dade police said three men got into an altercation, possibly over a woman, at about 11 p.m. at the Chili’s at 5705 NW 173rd Drive. Police said the argument escalated when someone pulled out a gun and opened fire.”

http://www.justnews.com/news/15435863/detail.html

“An angry customer shot a Chili’s employee to death in front of a northside restaurant, investigators told KPRC Local 2 Friday. The shooting happened at about 11:30 p.m. Thursday at Chili’s, 9350 N. Sam Houston Parkway near Wilson Road, in Humble. The restaurant was still open, and several employees and customers were inside.”

http://www.click2houston.com/news/16986006/detail.html

Dunn allegedly shot and killed Johnson with a 12-gauge shotgun while Johnson and his wife were leaving the Mandango’s Sports Bar and Grill. He had also allegedly killed Michael Daly, 45, as his family was leaving the Chili’s restaurant at the corner of Laguna Boulevard and Bruceville Road. Two Sacramento County sheriff’s deputies later encountered Dunn who reportedly had first fired at their patrol vehicle and later pointed his shotgun at them on the street.

http://www.egcitizen.com/articles/2007/10/24/news/news01.txt

There’s three - a google search brings up others …
dontcallmemikey writes
May 30th, 2009 5:55 pm

Shane wrote:
Since there doesn’t appear to be any data to support the idea that a visit to Chili’s Grill & Bar is going to put your life in danger (other than the menu, of course), why make the change and force business owners to “endanger” their customers by putting up this sign you fear so much?

“One man is dead and another injured after shots rang out at a Chili’s restaurant in northwest Miami-Dade County, police said.”
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/miami-fl/TKPMP07US81UVVCKG

“Yesterday in Melbourne, Florida at a local Chili’s restaurant, a gun was in the restaurant and it was accidentally fired. According to Gun Accidentally Fires, Hits Chili’s Customer, on local 6 news, a gun belonging to a customer hit a nearby person eating dinner. The man was shot in the lower leg in the dining area by accident.”
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/710315/gun_in_chilis.html?cat=9

An angry customer shot a Chili’s employee to death in front of a northside restaurant, investigators told KPRC Local 2 Friday. The shooting happened at about 11:30 p.m. Thursday at Chili’s, 9350 N. Sam Houston Parkway near Wilson Road, in Humble. The restaurant was still open, and several employees and customers were inside.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/16986006/detail.html

Nah, Shane, no evidence at all … note the gun acciedentally going off and harming an innocent customer, second story.
dontcallmemikey writes
May 30th, 2009 6:02 pm

Sorry for duplicate posts - all valid information, my computer just seemed like it didn’t post the first time, so I did it again …
Ben writes
May 30th, 2009 7:13 pm

Man, Donna nailed it. You tell ‘em.
TennRod writes
May 30th, 2009 7:32 pm

What is sad is that these gun nuts really are in a minority, and yet they are such noisy bullies, so well funded by the gun manufacturers, so in the pockets of the nitwits in the General Assembly that they seem to be able to steamroll this kind of crazy law into the code.

I flat out do not believe that anywhere near a majority of people of this state want to carry a gun into a restaurant or want someone else to do so either.
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 30th, 2009 7:48 pm

Really there are 200,000 gun owners in the US.

That leaves 100,000,000 that do not own guns.

So you believe it is safer for me to leave my Gun in my Car so someone can break into my car and come in and shoot up the Resturant.

Or would it be Safer on my Hip in the resturant, where the only person that has access to my firearm is a myself, who obeys the laws, has had a background check, and is fingerprinted and in the system to be Identified immediately if I should commit a felony.

Tell you my opinion I would rather law abiding permit holders to have control of their Firearms at all times. In a Resturant, than to have the Gun in the car where access is to any Nutty teenager that wants to steal my Sound System.
TennRod writes
May 30th, 2009 8:03 pm

“So you believe it is safer for me to leave my Gun in my Car so someone can break into my car and come in and shoot up the Resturant.”

Yeah, I just hate it when that happens. This has been such a problem down at O’Charley’s lately. You know, gangs of thugs waiting for you to leave your gun in the car so they can break the window, get that gun and come on in and shoot up the place. It’s just been too bad that a bunch of armed and ready gun-totin’ good guys weren’t able to pull out their rods and stop them in an old fashioned shot-out between the rolls and salad course. I don’t know how Tennesseans have been able to swallow a bit of food without the knowledge that are at the next table, ready to take out the net Clyde Darrow when he bust in the front door.

Do you even realize what an idiot you sound like?
dontcallmemikey writes
May 30th, 2009 8:20 pm

“Yesterday in Melbourne, Florida at a local Chili’s restaurant, a gun was in the restaurant and it was accidentally fired. According to Gun Accidentally Fires, Hits Chili’s Customer, on local 6 news, a gun belonging to a customer hit a nearby person eating dinner. The man was shot in the lower leg in the dining area by accident.”
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/710315/gun_in_chilis.html?cat=9
Pinandpuller writes
May 30th, 2009 9:08 pm

So what do the stats say about gun nuts going out to the parking lot, grabbing their gun out of the trunk and shooting someone outside the bar? If all us gun-lovers are so unstable surely a little thing like a short walk wouldn’t be a deterrent to mayhem.

It’s almost laughable how the anti-gunners portray gun-lovers as paranoid for wanting to exercise their right to carry.

Why are cops allowed to carry guns into bars or restaurants that serve alcohol? I mean-what’s their need? Are they afraid that someone with a gun is going to come in at lunch and blow everyone away? What a bunch of paranoid cowards. I’m sure that they are the only ones carrying at that point…right?

Anti-gunners are the paranoid ones.
Pinandpuller writes
May 30th, 2009 9:22 pm

dontcallmemikey

I read the article and it doesn’t say whether alcohol was a factor, which seems to be the crux of the anti-carry proponents.

The other day in Memphis a cop took several shots at a pit bull with a shotgun. He missed and a ricocheting pellet hit a bystander. This whole cops carrying guns is starting to get out of control.

Another one: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/08/police.kill.dog/index.html
Anonymous writes
May 30th, 2009 9:50 pm

Donna L, when you ex-prosecutor brother is carrying a firearm, does he leave it in the car at restaurants?
Donna Locke writes
May 30th, 2009 10:00 pm

I’ve never seen him carry one into a restaurant. Don’t know if he ever has. I doubt it. We are not the Sopranos.

I have seen him put his firearm into the car trunk before we went into some places.

Now some of y’all might not be aware that gun-carry is already legal in Tennessee restaurants that don’t serve alcohol, unless the restaurant posts otherwise. I think this is worse than the bar thing really, because the non-alcohol restaurants are where we might be with our children and grandchildren. You know that in a restaurant, you are fooling with getting your wallet and money out, and a gun accident is more likely under those circumstances, like the deal we saw in an Atlanta restaurant when the gun fell out of a woman’s handbag.
dontcallmemikey writes
May 30th, 2009 10:02 pm

I don’t think it matters, pinandpuller. I’ve read numerous posts from folks who approve of the legislation and they all seem to think that Applebee’s, Chili’s, etc. are immune to gun violence. It’s just not true. And people do get hurt from guns and gun violence in family restaurants that also serve beer and wine and mixed drinks. My point is that when you ADD legally guns into the mix with alcohol, you are going to compound the situation, not make it better. It isn’t wise … at all.
dontcallmemikey writes
May 30th, 2009 10:05 pm

Pinandpuller - you minimize. The point is that the officer in your post is skilled, and he STILL missed. bob the cowboy might not be as skilled after a couple of whiskey sours.
dontcallmemikey writes
May 30th, 2009 10:06 pm

“Two men are dead and another man is in police custody after a shooting at a Chili’s restaurant Wednesday night. Miami-Dade police said three men got into an altercation, possibly over a woman, at about 11 p.m. at the Chili’s at 5705 NW 173rd Drive. Police said the argument escalated when someone pulled out a gun and opened fire.”

http://www.justnews.com/news/15435863/detail.html
Anonymous writes
May 30th, 2009 10:28 pm

Get past the emotions and look at the data.If you look at the states adjoining Tennessee, the carry laws (whether or not they permit concealed weapons in places that serve alcohol), and gun deaths per capita, you find no correlation.

The two adjoining states with the highest (MS) and lowest (VA) guns deaths per capita prohibit guns in bars or restaurants that serve alcohol. Of the nine states in total, the ones (including TN) that did not allow guns in establishments serving alcohol ranked 1st,4th, 5th, 7th, and 9th in per capita gun deaths.

If the veto is overridden and the law goes into effect, the change you are likely to see is little, if any. This reminds me of the apocryphal warnings we heard when some state first allowed concealed carry - and nothing happened.
dontcallmemikey writes
May 31st, 2009 7:20 am

I would suggest, Anonymous, that this is law is needless. There was no good reason to pass this law, it was done for political purposes. And it’s ‘potential’ for harm is hat should have been considered more carefully.
Anonymous writes
May 31st, 2009 9:18 am

DontCall, if we got rid of the laws made for political purposes, we could shorten the Legislative session to about a week (which isnt a bad idea).

“Potential harm” is a bogus criteria. Everything - aspirin, vaccines, fast food, rope - has the potential for harm.
dontcallmemikey writes
May 31st, 2009 9:25 am

LOL - probably, from both sides. Doesn’t make THIS one correct, tho …

And, might I point out, all of those items you listed are regulated. Manufacture, etc. In most cases, a cautious approach has been established with aspirin, certainly vaccines, fast food restaurants are inspected, rope is manufactured to spedifications. This bill, however, depends on ‘the kindess of strangers,’ and we see how far that got poor innocent Blanche DuBois …
Anonymous writes
May 31st, 2009 1:12 pm

Dont Call, here’s what I can’t figure out -

I believe the net effect of this change in the law will be zilch. No shootouts in McDonalds, no wave of gun related deaths in Applebees, nothing. I also believe the thing is going to pass, that the veto will be overridden easily, and that everyone should have seen this coming. So why the hell do the Dems pick this issue to raise cain over?

You can honestly oppose it on philosophical reasons, but fighting this battle is pissing in the wind. You can frame it as how awful the Republicans are, and you still go on record as getting your asses kicked. You can moan about how we should be focused on more important things, and yet you eat up all the time on an issue you know you are going to lose.

Why not give them the damn thing, vote against it or abstain if you like, but get it off the table quickly and force the attention back to the important stuff?
wm dutton writes
May 31st, 2009 1:29 pm

Both the Gov. and his wife run in Percy Warner Park with BODYGUARDS..d’ya recon they are armed. Just another example of the Animal Farm books note that according to the communists, “all people are created equal, but some people are more equal than others.” I guess my taxes can protect the Gov, but not me!
Ben writes
May 31st, 2009 1:35 pm

Anon, this isn’t just a political issue. I’m raising cain because I believe allowing guns in bars is a bad idea. I’m also raising cain because the overwhelming majority of Tennesseans agree with me. A vocal and obsessive minority is pushing to allow guns in bars, and our cowardly state legislators are bowing to that minority. Why? Because they are afraid the NRA will run negative attacks on them in their next election. Let’s face it, Tennessee state legislators have the backbone of a bowl of Jell-O.

I say, “Enough!” There are only 220,000 handgun permint holders in Tennessee. There are 6 Million Tennesseans that see no need to carry guns every moment we are awake, much less in an establishment that serves alcohol. The majority should be heard.

What type of state are we going to have moving forward? That’s the question at issue in this debate. Will the reasonable majority be heard, or will the Tennessee General Assembly continue to be owned lock, stock, and barrel by the special interests and the fringe groups?
dontcallmemikey writes
May 31st, 2009 1:35 pm

It’s symbolic, Anon - it’s symbolic of how the Republican Party has SOLD OUT to the NRA. It’s symbolic of how very little the TNGOP cares about what citizens want; its about its own narrow constituency. This and the abortion bill show that the TNGOP isn’t really serious about the main issues facing the state - only these narrow, payback to the loyal things have been important.
I’m against it because of the doors it opens. You may be right, Anon - perhaps nothing will happen. Then again, if it does, I’m sure those who have fought so hard for it will deny it had any effect. It will be a non-issue.
I would love to see TN Democrats fight hard for SOMETHING. Anything, with the passion a few wingnuts bring to bear on issues. If Democrats picketed the state house, held rallies in downtown Nashville, this law would disappear on veto. But we don’t. Don’t know why, but we don’t.
I hope the veto doesn’t get overridden, but I’m not putting any of my pocket change on the chances.
Ben writes
May 31st, 2009 1:42 pm

I would love to see TN Democrats fight hard for SOMETHING.

Agreed, dontcall! I won’t vote for a candidate that supports guns in bars. That includes candidates running for governor. The Memphis Flyer reports that Roy Herron co-sponsored guns in bars, and Cammack and McMillan support Bredesen’s veto. No word from McWherter.
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 31st, 2009 3:06 pm

Shane they already are…

Look how many resturant managers/employee are killed.. in the last several years when opening and closing the establisment. Look at the number of reaturant patrons that have been robbed mugged and killed when entering and exiting resturants.

Why… because they know you are unarmed.

Remember Wolves do not eat Tigers.
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 31st, 2009 3:19 pm

I do know for a fact a 16 year old with a 45 trumps 2 200+lb men that invade a house.

My 16 year old was home doing her homework while we were out after church eating with friends.

We got a Call on our Cell phone, to come home, there had been a breakin.

My daughter was upstairs when 2 men kicked in the door. She Got the phone dialed 911, got my Pistol, took her defensive position in our Bedroom opposite the door, behind the bed, with the piston aimed at the door, the phone on the bed talking the whole time with the dispacher. She told them someone was breaking into the home, she had a pistol and was trapped upstairs.

During the 22 minute wait for the police to arrive, the 2 men came to upstairs, looked into our bedroom and saw my daughter aiming a 45 at them… she shouted LEAVE NOW!.. They left… the police arrived the dispacher said the officers are almost there… she heard someone downstairs say police, she said I am upstairs I have a gun. She asked what was the officer’s Name badge number the dispacher gave her the information, she shouted … Officer XX what is your badge number, he told her..

She dropped the magazine, and emptied the Chamber.. said I have emptied the gun and comming down..

They caught the 2 3 or 4 houses up the street where they had beaten and raped the woman….

Firearm is a tool, and like any tool you need it when you need it.. the reat of the time it stays in the belt.. and if you need it and dont have it.. you are just up the creek.
Perry writes
May 31st, 2009 3:35 pm

Ben, where do you get your 6,000,000 figure for the number of people who oppose the bill? Are you assuming that everyone who isn’t licensed to carry opposes the bill? If so, how do you support that claim?
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 31st, 2009 4:28 pm

There have been 2 sutdies of States that allow CCL, and States that do not have CCL.

1 was by the University of Chicago the other was UCLA, both were 5 year studies, from 2 different 5 year periods

States that Do not have CCL….

U.C. Study you are chances are 242% greater to be Murdered UCLA Study 234% Greater

Armed Robbery.. U.C study you were 472% more likely to be a victim of Armed Robbery, UCLA 512% greater.

Rape.. Women were 340% more likely to be raped in states that did not allow CCl.
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 31st, 2009 4:34 pm

Drew
“This bill legalized what people are already doing. Under current law it’s illegal to walk into Wal-Mart because they sell bear. You know it’s not illegal to drink in your house and have a gun, I wonder how that’s been working out.”

It is not illegal to walk into Walmart while Carrying you sidearm.

It is only illegal to carry where people consume alcohol.

Since I dont consume Alcohol anywhere, why should I and people like me be punished for the actions of others.

If a person is consuming alcohol. Under the new law it would still be illegal for them to carry even with a CCL.
HH writes
May 31st, 2009 5:03 pm

It’s shameful and disgusting that you want to try to intimidate the police oficers who supported the governor’s veto of the “guns in bars” bill. Just remember this——Their job is to PROTECT your sorry asses, and they REALLY know how to shoot!
Anonymous writes
May 31st, 2009 5:07 pm

BTW Ben, I like your logic. Can we apply it to other situations?

“A vocal and obsessive minority is pushing to allow SAME SEX MARRIAGE,”

or maybe

“A vocal and obsessive minority is pushing to allow a STATE INCOME TAX”
Anonymous writes
May 31st, 2009 5:08 pm

Is it intimidation,HH, to let them know we don’t support their views on this topic? They must be really thin skinned.
Jake writes
May 31st, 2009 5:26 pm

To TNvolunteer73: I heartily commend you and your daughter for her knowledge in the proper use of a firearm, however I fail to understand what this situation has to do with carrying guns in bars or anywhere else. No one that I know of has questioned the right of anyone to defend his life or dwel;ling against intruders. That has been part of Anglo-Saxon common law for 1000 years! It seemms that your daughter is much more mature than all of this state’s hysterical gun nuts combined. Kudos to her!
On another subject, however, do you seriously think that someone is going to sit in a bar while armed and NOT consume alcohol?
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 31st, 2009 6:40 pm

Police rarely Protect..

They clean up the mess once it is over

Police Waited outside until the shooting was over at Columbine

VA Tech

The 5 year study by the Universtity of Chicago discovered that Police stop ~10,000 crimes in progess annually

Armed Citizens stop ~2,500,000 annually

The Resonse time in Nashville for a 911 Call is 18 Minutes…

A Shooter comes into Chilies you are trapped you call 911 on your cell phone the Shooter is walking from table to table shooting people… Set a timer for 20 minutes.. long time.. then when they get there they do not enter the building.

If you dont think that law abiding REPEAT LAW ABIDING people do not need the right to carry..

listen to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTainp2cY_w
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 31st, 2009 6:41 pm

Jake I go to Chilies and sports bars all the time… I have not had a drink of Alcohol since 1974
TNVolunteer73 writes
May 31st, 2009 6:46 pm

HH, Jake You guys seem to think that everyone that wants to go to the effort to get their Carry permit is wanting to become next Billy the Kid or Doc Holiday..

That just isn’t the case… those that want the right to carry are more likley to be the mentality of Bat Masterson.

Using keeping with your Wild West assumptions.
Jake writes
May 31st, 2009 8:23 pm

Whoa, TNvolunteer73! Don’t I get some credit for commending you and your daughter for knowing the proper use of firearms? Both of you seem to be light years ahead of the NRA wackos whom you seem to endorse. You appear quite articulate and capable of stating your point of view without being paranoid, and I enjoy conversing with you. You impress me as someone who would never use a firearm irresponsibly, but it’s the nuts with the cowboy mentality that concern me. By the way I’m a former law enforcement officer who has played cops and robbers with the big boys, and believe me, it’s not as glamorous as some people think.

“I may disagrre with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire
Ben writes
May 31st, 2009 8:48 pm

Having guns in your home is completely different, TNVolunteer. I support the right to bear arms with reasonable restrictions, including not allowing guns in bars.

Check the population of Tennessee and you will see that 6 million Tennesseans don’t have carry permits. I think it is more than reasonable to assume that the overwhelming majority oppose carrying guns in bars.

And I think it’s reasonable to assume that the majority of them do not support the Tennessee Firearm Association attacking our law enforcement officers.
rebel writes
May 31st, 2009 11:05 pm

guns in bars ,wingnuts,wackos,idiots ,morons,Gun nuts….This is all I have read when someone is against guns ..IT IS NOT A GUNS IN BARS BILL..It is a carry bill for PERMIT HOLDERS in RESTAURANTS who consume NO ALCOHOL.I am tired of being called names because I choose to be prepared!I am not a nut or a wacko .I’m a man that works hard every day to pay bills and give my kids what I didn’t have!I don’t want trouble but I don’t want to give some low life something that I worked hard for :THAT INCLUDES MY LIFE OR THE LIFE OF A FAMILY MEMBER!
Perry writes
June 1st, 2009 12:13 am

Ben, you still havent given any documentation to support your claims. Where do you get a “reasonable assumption” that the overhwhelming majority of 6 million Tennesseans without carry permits do not support this bill, or the TFA in their desire to let law enforcement know their point of view.

You are playing fast and loose with your “facts”.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 7:37 am

You anti gun people speak with hot air. Try looking up FACTS. 37 states allow law abiding citizens to walk in an Applebees and eat dinner. They ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DRINK. I keep hearing ” guns and alcohol dont mix” as the arguement. I agree with that statement. But the point is, while carrying YOU CANNOT DRINK.
37 states allow it with no problems. Are the people of Tenneseee less responsible than the people in other states?
Permit holders are the most law abiding citizens in the country LOOK IT UP instead of just blowing hot air.
If any of you are ever faced with a thug sticking a gun in your face, or ytour wife being brutely raped you might just change your mind. LOOK UP how this law works in other states. LOOK UP THE FACTS !!
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 7:53 am

Hey bob - we know they’re not allowed to drink, ok. We got that. We know, also, that some WILL drink, and won’t be caught doing it unless their gun discharges … oh, by then, it’s too late.

“the most law abiding citizens in the country” - LOL, if you say so.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 5th, 2009 8:10 am

Dontcallme.

There are ~300,000 permit holders in the state of TN

Find me 0.01% of them that have abused their Right to Carry.

That would be 30 out of the 300,000.

you will not find it… there has been 1 case in 12 years that permit holder has abused their right to carry.

Now See if you can find 30 Cases where permit holders were successful in protecting themseves and others…

Which one do you think will have the most?
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 5th, 2009 8:16 am

There have been polls in the Commercial Appeal (Democrat heaven) and Channel 5 news..

I know these are online polls. Not always the most accurate. But they are a lot more accurate than Bobs assumption.

2/3rds of teh people support the new law.

If it was such an importan Issue with most Tennesseans, the polls would not have been so lopsided.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 8:20 am

Hey Dontcallmemikey , LOOK UP THE FACTS. WE are 6 times less likely to commit a crime than the average citizen. Obviously you havent looked it up yet. I’m waiting……. These are FBI statistics. How bout spending some of that hot air on the average citizen that will walk out of the place over the legal limit of alcohol and drive?? The REAL danger. Look up the facts on that.
What gets me is the peolle that argue this NEVER show the evidence to back up their “fears”. I can back mine up, CAN YOU? I’m going to assume you have access to Google.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 8:23 am

Tnvolunteer73. I have made NO assumptions. I’m speaking from facts readily available to you and everyone else. You’re talking a poll from a liberal news station and Democrat Heaven?? Give me a brake….. Thats not facts.
The difference here is you area ll speaking from “opinions” I’m not, I’m talking FACTS. Please look it up.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 5th, 2009 8:49 am

Acctually Bob, that should have been addressed to Ben..

I think you and I are on the same side.

66% of those polled have no problem with the new law

only 34% do.

I think it will in the long run reduce crime. Now that is my Opinion. so we will have to watch and see if the facts back it up in the future
Steve writes
June 5th, 2009 8:53 am

According to some, Permit holders thinking they need a gun to defend themselves while there are many reported cases of murders in restaurants = paranoid.

People thinking gun owners will break the law and drink then shoot up the restaurant = logic.

All the facts and studies support the right to carry.
Redbarron06 writes
June 5th, 2009 9:58 am

Well I guess some folks here are just not thinking with thier head.

1st of all I am the one (at least one of them) that gave TFA the idea to get a list of the LEOs that were behind Phil B when he signed the veto. I will take the heat of holding both elected and appointed persons resonsible for wasting the money of the tax payers by appearing for a photo op when they should be out fighting crime. Guess what, do you know how they got there? Your tax dollars. They were bussed there by the state. In a time where the gov is about to fire 1000 people he spent a days pay for all of those folks just to make a political statement. Bredeson knew the veto would be voted out when he signed it so he spent how many thousands of dollars to pre-stage an event. Kinda like throwing money away huh.

Somebody posted a few shooting in places that sold alcohol. Well how many of those shootings involved people that were legally carrying a firearm? How many? Ohh none huh. You can not compare apples and oranges. What about the shooting here in Tennessee when the lady watched the guy put a gun to her husbands head and pull the trigger? She had her gun in the car because somebody denied her the right to protect herself and her family. Well this law fixes that and you folks are upset about it. How about the waiter that was stabbed to death in O’Charlies at lunch last year in Anitoch? Maybe a gun in the place could have saved his life? I am willing to bet it would have made the man hunt for the killer much shorter.

Why should I be left at the protection of others because I want to take my wife out and have fajitas and sweet tea at the mexican place on friday night?

I have family in Atlanta and when I go down to visit I carry everywhere I go. Atlanta which is much worse, crmie wise, than most of Tennessee has not had one shooting involving a legal carry holder in a bar since they changed the law.

Drew– Your knowledge of the facts shows that you lack the ability to study the subject. I can at any time take a firarm into any place that sells alcohol including walmart and the corner liquer store. That is the law. The only change in this law, is that now I can take it into a place that serves alcohol.

Think of this. Anybody know where the Hooters in Goodlettsville is?? I have a buddy that has worked security there before ARMED. It was a plain clothes job with a weapon concealed. Now my buddy sat there and ate wings and drink water or tea for hours every Friday and Saturday night. This has gone on for years. This law allows me to do the same thing with my family.

If all of you feel this strongly about guns in places that sell alcohol then why are you not swamping your local police chiefs phone every time you see a policeman in Hooters or Chilies for lunch. They are armed, and they are breaking Tennessee law just as I would have been prior to this law. Why is it that you are not calling your Senators and reps and telling them not to pass a law that will allow them to carry in a bar when they are off duty which is illegal right now IAW TCA. The same law will allow a judge to carry a gun the same place that policeman does. Where is your outrage for that?

The fact of the matter is that you have either been sold a biil of goods using fear just like the last elections or you choose to sit there and let somebody else be responsible for you and your safety rather than taking the matter into your own hands and standing on your own feet.

I have the right to protect myself and my family. If you choose not to that is your choice but you can not place my life at danger because of it. The only way that me carrying a weapon is a threat to your life is if you are being a threat mine.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 10:33 am

Heyya Bob - I didn’t make claim, you did. You said -

Permit holders are *the* most law abiding citizens in the country

I doubt that, and none of your statistics back it up. I don’t care percentages of permit holders who do illegal things - I wanna see the stats on whether your claim to most law-abiding citizens is accurate. I doubt it, think you’re using hyperbole, and use it to discount some really bad actors among those who do break the law.

Your claim, you prove it.
Redbarron06 writes
June 5th, 2009 10:48 am

“dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 7:53 am
Hey bob - we know they’re not allowed to drink, ok. We got that. We know, also, that some WILL drink, and won’t be caught doing it unless their gun discharges … oh, by then, it’s too late.”

What has kept them from doing this up to this point? Nothing. We could have been carrying guns into bars all along but we havn’t. Why? Can you tell me?
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 10:57 am

“We could have been carrying guns into bars all along but we havn’t. Why? Can you tell me?”

Oh, probably because you’re the most law-abiding citizens on the entire planet. - ROFL

Again, you guys are all-knowing, all seeing - aparently. Perhaps *you* haven’t been, but can you *personally* vouch for every TN with carry permit? didn’t think so …

Fact is, given human nature, some probably have been. Again, not in dispute. Doesn’t prove anything. But now, its more likely than before because it has become easier to do so.
henry patrick writes
June 5th, 2009 11:18 am

Fact is, given human nature

You started in correctly, the fact is, politicians ,policemen,businessmen and everyday citizens have been convicted of crimes against the state,and country!
no one is an angel and anyone can fall from grace save the one who died on the cross for all our sins.
to establish classes of citizens with different rights is fascism, this country is not a dictatorship,some will fall, the majority will not,to put one’s life only in the hands of the police would require asking the criminal if he would mind waiting fifteen minutes for you representative to arrive, meanwhile,you are dead! period! that is unacceptable, the bill of rights grants and demands our right to defend ourselves against evil with the use of firearms to maintain our life,our liberty and our pursuit of happiness,although the later is not in the second ammendment it is our right, period.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 12:03 pm

to establish classes of citizens with different rights is fascism

you know, you are exactly correct here. I don’t dispute it.

So those of us who wish to feel secure knowing our children won’t have THEIR HEADS BLOWN OFF while eating a hamburger have to take a back seat so that MR. GUN PACKER doesn’t have to lock his firearm in his trunk before he has a liquid refreshment. And, by ya’ll’s own reckoning, there are fewer gun packers than we hamburger eaters … so, we non-packing members feel we have a two classes - those who feel John Wayne safe and those of us who now feel like victims in waiting …
legallyarmed4myself writes
June 5th, 2009 3:36 pm

Am I a nut? Maybe, but most here are not qualified to certify that. I have attended many gatherings with many armed members, eating, joking all while being free and liberated citizens. There are no stories about restuarants being shot-up by citizens with HCP. I don’t see stories in the so-called “News” about Permitted citizens being arrested for violating the law. As stated and ignored, those shootings in bars are from people that DO NOT HAVE A PERMIT. Criminals don’t obey the Law.
We (HCP holders)are already sitting next to you in many extablishments that do not serve alcoholic beverages. You ain’t dead, so obviously our handguns are defective (sarcasm very heavy).
http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=10474933&nav=menu5_2

Metro arrests more DUI offenders than ever

Posted: June 3, 2009 07:58 PM CDT

“Metro police officer Greg Davis told News 2.

He said last year, in early June 2008, 40% of all traffic deaths involved alcohol. This year that number is just 14%, and police continue to see a steady decrease.

Metro receives grant money for a DUI unit.

In 2006, the unit arrested 571 drunk drivers. In 2007, that number tripled to 1,786 and jumped even more to 1,930 in 2008.

So far this year, Metro police have put more than 1,000 people in jail for drinking and driving and there is still seven months of 2009 to go.”
******
SO, we have a current Media, an outside source presenting “facts”. This is just in Nashville…
If you truly are worried that alcohol will impair a drinker’s judgement, close those places that sell alcohol for on-site consumption! As a HCP holder, I cannot drink and carry. I pass sobriety checkpoints. Anytime. Anyday. A holstered firearm is “Parked”. Unless threatened it stays in the holster. People go out and have a good time drinking and get in a vehicle and threaten the lives of everybody on the road. What’s that? Just one drink won’t affect your driving and judgement? That same drink wouldn’t affect me either… but I have a gun… so therefore I suddenly become an active threat to you?? But behind the wheel of a car, you are a safe and responsible person? Plz!!
Over 200K HCPs (and growing daily) in TN, no reports of us stumbling drunk and shooting up any establishment, or in any state…. Fact. Not the fearmongering delusional imaginings based on old western movies and dime store novels of the Wild West.
The proof can be seen in the surrounding states to TN. Exercise your brain and search the news/WEB for stories of Permit holders getting drunk and engaging in unlawful activities…….. you will not find them. But maybe, just maybe, you beleive that the people in TN are too stupid to know how to behave and act responsibly. Therefore cannot be entrusted with making adult decisions. And remember: YOU TOO are a Tennessean!!
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:05 pm

Dontcallmemikey, Here ya go. You requsted, you got it… If you need more reading, Just let me know….

http://www.lesjones.com/posts/004329.shtml

http://www.nowandfutures.com/d2/GunsStopCrime_GunsSaveLivesfact_sheet.pdf

http://www.marylandshallissue.org/fact.html

http://www.azccw.com/More Facts & Statistics.htm

http://legallyarmed.com/decade.htm

http://www.kc3.com/CCDW_Stats/fla_model.htm

How can it be such a problem when the stats show its not. Florida with the longest time with permits and a large population of holders is a good example. Read below:

Pop. - 13,277,000 Floridians Who Own Guns (Percent) All — 62.7% Male — 68.8% Female — 57.3% Floridians Who Own Guns (Number): 8,325,000 Permits issued: 204,108 Permits Revoked Due To Crime: 17 (0.008%)

The latest report from the Florida Department of State, covering a 6-year, 4-month period from 10/01/87 (start-up date) through 02/28/94, shows that 204,108 CCW permits have been issued — 69% new permits; 31% permit renewals. Only one-quarter of 1% of permit applications have been rejected due to an applicant’s criminal history; two-tenths of 1% have been rejected due to an “incomplete application.” One hundred eighty-seven (0.1%) permits have been revoked because the permittee committed some kind of crime, though not necessarily a gun-related or violent crime, after permit issuance. After receiving permits, only 17 (0.008%) individuals committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which firearms were present, though not necessarily used. By contrast, in 1992 there were about 46,000 gun-related violent crimes (assaults, robberies, homicides and rapes) in Florida, based upon FBI Uniform Crime Reports supplementary reports and reported crime totals.

How can this be??? You anti’s are worrying yourself over nothing. Do you not have as much confidence in your fellow Tennesseans? Are they not as smart as other people in the country?
You wont have to worry about me sitting next to you in a restaurant that’s posted because they wont get my money. I’ll go somewhere else that isnt posted. To me those silly signs say ” cmon in thugs, rob this place. No one here is going to defend themselves”..Those signs will slowely come down after they see how much business they are loosintg. I live in Ky and I have yet to find one restaurant that is posted.
Every state that passed this went through the same thing you are. “Oh there will be the old west all over again”. Tell ya what. I’ll see ya back here in 2 years and you update me of all the problems it has caused. Your state is no different than any other state. Like I’ve said, LOOK UP THE STATS.. I did…
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:21 pm

Another one to dontcallmemikey……. ARE YOU SERIOUS?? REALLY??
Do you know how many times you have eatn at Mcdonalds with your kids or go to Walmart that you are right next to someone with a legal gun? You’re really afraid to take your kids out now? You have got to be joking. And you want to call US paranoid?
Do you remember the Mcdonalds that was shot up years ago? Even shot a kid riding away on a bicycle? And it is law abiding citizens you are worried about???…
I’m no John Wayne wanna be and I’m tired of ignorant people assuming I am just because I have the right to defend myself and my family. Must be nice to know when crime is going to happen to you. How do you do that?
I carry a gun everywhere I go because crime is random. My biggest fear is having to pull a gun on someone. Or worst having to shoot someone and live with the ramifications of it. But if its a scumbag or me, I’m the one going home. I’ve NEVER been in a fight in my life and I’m over 50 years old. I have NO felonies and never been arrested. I run my own business, do the books myself and work hard. I will defend my family with my life. Suppose YOU tell me what your plan is if someone wants to grab your wife or daughter while out somewhere. Whats your plan?? Call 911 and wait ??
The thing about this restaurant carry that many dont understand is, I carry my gun in places alot of times because I dont want to leave a gun in the car where it can be stolen or if my car is stolen, then they have a gun too. Its called responsible gun ownership. The safest place for my gun is on me in a good quality holster where I have control of it at all times. How can that happen if I cant carry it in a restuarant??
I hope you and your family are never are faced with a life and death situation while you are out, because you and your family are going to loose. The difference between you and me is I’m prepared for the worst , your not…
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:23 pm

Redbarron06. You’re right on. Great post…..
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:53 pm

dontcallmemikey, here ya go…
http://www.lesjones.com/posts/004329.shtml

http://www.nowandfutures.com/d2/GunsStopCrime_GunsSaveLivesfact_sheet.pdf

http://www.marylandshallissue.org/fact.htm

http://www.azccw.com/More Facts & Statistics.htm

http://legallyarmed.com/decade.htm

http://www.kc3.com/CCDW_Stats/fla_model.htm

If you need more reading lemme know
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:56 pm

dontcallmemikey, Ive tried posting twice, 6 links to back up my stats. It wont let me. I’ll try again
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:57 pm

http://www.kc3.com/CCDW_Stats/fla_model.htm
Heres the best one. Pay special attention to the last section
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:58 pm

http://legallyarmed.com/decade.htm
Heres another. Enjoy
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 6:59 pm

http://www.azccw.com/More Facts & Statistics.htm

More fun for ya…….
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 7:00 pm

http://www.nowandfutures.com/d2/GunsStopCrime_GunsSaveLivesfact_sheet.pdf

Heres more.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 7:01 pm

http://www.lesjones.com/posts/004329.shtml

Read please
steven pickel writes
June 5th, 2009 7:03 pm

I have a permit and dont drink and dont want to. my wife however might want to have a glass of wine with dinner and i might like to go with her if by chance i do somthing wrong i will have my permit revoked and be looking at jail time! even if it is just caught drinking! so lets all just fllow the law.
Stop worring about me and start worring about the guy that could care less about a gun permit! he is the guy that shoots inocents
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 7:52 pm

Got one for you - only took a second:

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/oct/03/news/mn-30319

About 215,000 Texans are currently licensed to carry concealed weapons. The state concedes that more than 400 were licensed despite prior convictions, and more than 3,000 other licensees have since been arrested.

However, the state never releases the names of individual problem licensees or any details of their crimes.

I’d say that last statement, Sparky, is the crux of it all … “… the state never releases the names of individual problem licensees or any details of their crimes.”
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 7:55 pm

And this:

According to the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS),Texas concealed handgun license holders were arrested for a total of 3,370 crimes from January 1, 1996 to April 30, 2000. Crimes for which license holders were arrested include: murder/attempted murder, kidnapping, rape/sexual assault, assault, weapon-related offenses, drug-related offenses, burglary, and theft.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ltk3intr.htm

I loved this:
• Texas concealed handgun license holders have been arrested for more than two crimes a day since the law went into effect.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 7:56 pm

Oh this one, too -

Since Texas’ concealed-handgun law became effective four years ago, permit holders have been arrested on 3,370 charges ranging from drunken driving to murder,

http://www.kc3.com/news/more_lies_hci.htm
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 7:59 pm

And here’s a sampling of how “the most law abiding citizens in the country” have fared across the country:

the most law abiding citizens in the country

http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/opinion-brady-campaign-obama-agrees-on-dangers-of-concealed-carry
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 8:41 pm

Heres how it brakes down in 2006 in Texas.. Pretty small percentage.

General poulation in 2006 in Texas - population of approximately 23.5 million, 61,539 total convictions = conviction rate of 0.262%.

CHL population in 2006 in Texas - population of approximately 260,000, 140 total convictions = conviction rate of 0.054%.

So CHL holders are about 5 times less likely to commit a crime than the average person walking around on the street.

You want to quote from Paul Hemke of all people? The king of spin from the Bradey Campaigne.. I have to call foul on that one., He’s been proven wrong on so many occasions. exagurations. I guess you also believe that 90% of the weapons in Mexico come from the USA?
lso you’re talking over a 4 year period. Heres another little tidbit from that article :
DPS figures reflect that 29 percent of the charges, felony and misdemeanor, against permit holders resulted in convictions. Twenty-six percent of the cases were dismissed, and 38 percent have yet to be resolved….
Small percentage of convictions. You have to look at the total picture. Population, crime rate, carriers and how much crime is commited by permit holders in comparison to the general population. Two tenths of one percent of permit holders had their permit revoked in Florida for one reason or another. Most not for a violent crime. If you want to believe that a criminal is going to get a permit to commit a crime. You keep on believing that.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 8:44 pm

Also you want to quote from Brady and Obama sites.?? Geeeez. Obama , the most Liberal gun hating lier that has ever been in office. He lied about the guns in Mexico. He lied about the assualt weapons ban. Notice I didnt quote anything from the NRA. It’s all FBI and state stats.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 8:57 pm

LOL … legallyarmed.com ?? arizona conceal and carry?
Oh yeah, no bias there, eh? ROFL …
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 8:58 pm

Hey Mikey ( Sorry couldnt resist)…. I had asked a simple question. If you and your family was walking out of a restaurant ( that served alcohol lets say ) and someone attacks you, your wife or kids, what is your plan? How will you protect your family? Or do you just think like most liberals and think those things only happen to other people or in the movies? What is you plan to protect your family when you leave the house?
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 9:00 pm

Where would you expect me to get viable info? The Brady Campaigne? My info was FBI studies.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 9:25 pm

ROFL … LOL - where would you expect me to get info refuting yours - the NRA?

ROFL … of course, the LATimes is liberal media, too - and the one place we both cited is only biased when it has stuff you don’t like … accept it.

First - the construct that CCW holders are ‘the most law abiding citizens in the country’ is a crock; they’re AT LEAST representative of the rest of society.

Second - states either don’t release information of CCW holders being involved in crimes; they report the crime, but not the statistic of how many CCWs are involved in them.

Third - CCWs don’t want their names released; not for safety, but they don’t want the bad press.

Granted, these aren’t in restaurants with alcohol, BUT … the myth is busted as to CCWs being ‘the most law abiding citizens in the country.’
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 9:29 pm

As for your question - well, you know, that’s a good one. We just won’t go out anymore, since you’ve made it more likely than ever for something to happen. I’ve built a nice bomb shelter here, and we’ve stocked it up pretty good.

ROFL … the man who walks in fear is always prepared, and is always afraid. The man who walks with God by his side walks with no fear.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 9:55 pm

So you’re saying I’m part of the problem and I’m just as bad as a thug? Thats really what you think? Anyone that is prepared to defend their family is a thug?
What does a bomb shelter have to do with going out? Do you carry it with you to dive into if you or a family member is attacked from a vicious conceal weapons carrier?
I dont walk in fear. I buckle my seat belt everytimne I get in the car, not because its the law but because I prepare myself for the worst case scenerio. I have 2 ( yes 2 ) fire extinguishers in my house to prapare for the worst. I have life insurance to take care of may family should the worst hapen to me. I have health insurance to prepare in case something happens. I carry a cell phone that can summons help. I carry a pocket knife in case I need to cut a string or something. I carry pepper spray to hopefuly use instead of taking a life with my gun.
You tell me what the difference is. A gun is no more than a tool for the worst case scenerio. I hope I go through my whole life and never have to draw on someone. But if I do, just brandishing it usually works. No harm done. I choose to protect my family at all cost. You choose to take the risk. Thats your choice. But dont compare me to some common criminal because I choose to protect my family.
You can depend on God if you want. Churches burn, religiuous people are raped and murdered just as much as athiests are, so good luck with that.
You still didnt answer my question. What is your plan to defend your family if you’re attacked at knife or gun point? You didnt answer it, all you did was attack me..I’m just curious what the anti gun people think they are going to do to defend thier family. I have a plan. Obviously you dont.
We have strayed off the restaurant carry subject. But I do think you will see in time, that your fears are unfounded and you can safely take your family out to eat. You will never know we are there. Like I said, in Ky , I have yet to find a restaurant thats posted. it will be that way there before long. Accept it, get use to it, and enjoy your meal. You’re worrying about a bunch of nothing.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 10:03 pm

PS. I’ve lived in Ky most of my life. Lived in Nashville for 8 years. I havent heard of one incodent with a permit holder in a restaurant here. Not to say it hasnt happened, the odds are small. You’re probably waaaay more likely to get hit by lightning. Better stay in that storm shelter.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 10:12 pm

Bob - I thought I answered your question, which is simply this - I don’t walk afraid of shadows and fog. I buckle as well, I have fire extinguishers - but there’s too many things in life to sit around every waking moment being ‘prepared.’ I learned as a parent that you can watch a kid 23 hours and 59 minutes of every day, an in that one minute, something bad will happen. you can’t be ‘prepared’ for everything.

I seriously wasn’t implying that you are ‘part of the problem.’ I just think your solution and mine are at variance.

I have stated before that I think this is a ginned up bill for political purposes, that it supports a national agenda by an interest group and does not speak for the majority of Americans. I think that CCW has a place, but - and I stress this again - NOT WHERE THERE IS ALCOHOL. I have family history with alcohol and bad behavior involving driving and guns. They don’t mix, and should never mix. Period. And all the stats in the world will not convince me that the two have a place together.
legallyarmed4myself writes
June 5th, 2009 10:22 pm

Mikey, You have yet to answer the question directly of what would you do if you were attacked in public. Your responce is BS. I hope your bomb shelter is well concealed and fully stocked. Better, you should be self-supporting. Get real, how ya not gonna go out?
Most places on the world do not have the Right to arms. They also experience the greatest violations of Human Rights. Do not point to the UK and their recent civil disarmerment, the populuos is now starting to rethink that position and want their weapons back. Violent crime has risen dramatically, more people being killed with guns than before their ban…. honest citizens had their guns destroyed…. hmmmmm! How can that be? Right, the criminal element…. Those folks are waiting for the goverment to ask for their guns as well. Then all the guns will be properly disposed of. SURE!!
During Maplewood graduation at TSU and that young person was shot. Within 20 ft of Metro officers….. and was not apprehended on the spot…. he got away from Metro. Newspaper article reporting the story, stated that Metro arrived within minutes of the shooting…. 20 ft away. How well do you think you will fair if they gotta travel a few miles to help you? The police are not here to prevent crime. If they could prevent crime, gang-bangers and the like, would be off the streets already. We would live in a safer society. But the reality is very different. The police have a difficult job and cannot be everywhere to assist people in need. I can protect me and mine. Do me a favor and wear a head/arm-band indicating your want to ban all guns. So if serious trouble starts, I won’t waste energy trying to help save your booty, I can concentrate on keeping mine intact.
Observing 60 yrs for D-Day… Hitler was a great politican. Got his country out of a depression. Instilled pride for “his” people. Instituted gun control, then started removing “undesirables” from society…… people that could not resist cuz they had no means to defend themselves. The rest is history.
Peace and Love to ya,
George
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 10:32 pm

OK George - you’re armed. You’re prepared. Do you know how you’re going to protect yourself? BS - do you know exactly how you’re gonna be attacked? Will it be you first, your your kid? Will they come from behind, or straight up to you?

Let’s suppose your wife goes out to the car to retrieve something and is raped while you eat a burger - then you find her lying by the car. Hmm, how did you protect her, you and old strap-iron?

The question’s a gotcha, and is BS - I have no idea, but when the time comes I suppose I’ll know then; and frankly, Bubba, when it comes down to it, you’re in the same freakin’ boat. Unless you have divine word on how its all gonna come down in advance.
bob writes
June 5th, 2009 11:01 pm

You STILL havent ansered the question. All you said was “I have no idea” so I guess we’ll have to accept that as your answer. The difference here is….. I doubt very seriously that I’ll ever hae to use my gun, and I hope I’m right. But I watch the news and I have the capability of putting myself in thier position. They are people just like me. I’m sure every violent crime, the person is thinking” I cant belive this is happening to me”. Its unexpected and happens in seconds. there is no gaurantee that just because I have a gun, I’m going to survive. But my chances are much greater than yours.
We live by our choices. You have yours I have mine. But I guarentee you one thing. If, by a very small chance, you or a family mamber is sitting in an Applebees and the crap hits the fan, you may be the one thanking a law abiding citizen that just happens to be carrying an equalizer
dontcallmemikey writes
June 5th, 2009 11:28 pm

“Its unexpected and happens in seconds.’

In other words, you have no idea either.
legallyarmed4myself writes
June 5th, 2009 11:56 pm

Hi mikey,
you are correct. I am so ignorant. Forgive me for I have sinned. Teach me the RIGHT WAY OF THINKING. Preach to me how evil my thinking has been. School me on how to be a victim-in-waiting. Tell me how evil guns are. How only evil people have gunz, except active duty military and law enforcement officers and judges and wealthy business people and high ranking public officials. Paint me a picture, for my simple mind, of the carnage in places that have welcomed guns and free citizens. Show me the video clips of Gun Free Zones and the news worthy life changing events that brings joy and serenity.
The LAW and GOD will protect me from evil. NOT!!
Criminals are notorious for obeying the LAW. I think I pissed the lady upstairs off and she’s got bigger issues to deal with. So I gotta be more self reliant. So glad that you are in her special circle.
You have insurance and so do I. I liken you to having minimum coverage, I have a couple extra policy riders. Hope neither of us ever needs to call upon our respective insurance. But I have these riders for “Just in case”.
When I go out to eat, I am hungry. I am not drinking alcohol and I am not handling my firearm. A restuarant has poor lighting, so why would I want to take my gun out in one? Field stripping a gun on a table there would introduce trash into the firing mechanism, not a desirable thing to do. So there are many reasons not to draw one’s gun while out dining. Get my gun greasy and dirty?? With ketchup??? Heck no!! Gonna leave it in its nice carrying case.
So why all the fuss? Keeping my gun clean.
Don’t talk with food in your mouth and pass the salt.
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 12:13 am

Put it this way…. I am much more prepared to protect my family outside the home than you are. You fight fire with fire. A fist is no match for a gun. Dont bring a knife to a gun fight. Youre right ., it happens in seconds. When seconds count, police are only minutes away.. You are responsible for your safety. The supreme court ruled that cops have no duty to protect you. They show up in time to take a report and clean up the mess.
Do you believe a woman leaving a resturant that just happens to serve alcohol, has the right to defend herself if when leaving the restaurant she is abducted in the parking lot.?? She couldnt defend herself leaving the restaurant unless she has the gun on her at the time.
Seems when antis talk about conceal weapons, they only think of men because they always say ” Rambo wanta be”. If you believe a woman has the right to defend herself against rape and murder, you have to believe a man should have the same right to self defense as a human being.
Ky passed a law that guns can be kept in the car on school property. This is so you have the right to defend yourself between home and school and anywhere else you have to go. It’s the same thing.It’s not just much having the gun in the restaurant , but also about going in and out of it at night.
Emmy Lou writes
June 6th, 2009 1:25 am

So it really IS all about the John Wayne scenario! Good to know!

Personally, when I’m around other human beings my Means of Protecting My Family is my mad ninja skilz, but I understand that not everyone has had the same access to training and mastery that I’ve enjoyed.

Let’s face it: risks are all around us. Some of those risks involve being around other people, in public. And it’s a scary world - trust me, I know! I’ve had personal experience with the things screwy people can do, like ramming passenger jets full of people into skyscrapers! It’s horrific.

So while I feel sorry for people who believe the only way to enjoy a night out at Applebee’s with the family is to carry a loaded gun on their hip, I don’t begrudge them their fears. Like I said, the world is a scary place.

But to get real for a second: the world’s been a scary place this whole time. We all have different ways of dealing with it. I just happen to notice that the restaurant and bar scene up and down Tennessee has hardly been a reason to fear for one’s life (and much less, has been a reason to wish for an armed companion!), and I don’t think it’s going to be anytime soon. So let’s be honest: you gun guys and your lobby won a great legislative battle, against a nonexistent threat, and now you can carry your guns just about anywhere you want. Bully for you! I’m still going to frequent bars and restaurants that have the good sense to keep you out, because really, we didn’t need your kind around before now, and we don’t in the future.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 6th, 2009 2:26 am

Dontcallme

Lets see how will you be attacked

My daughter she was 16. She was home by herself, and 2 men invaded the home by kicking down the door.

She was upstairs in her room

She heard them breaking in, She Grabbed the phone, dialed 911, Ran to our bedroom and on the nightstand was my .45… she took the defensive position as I taught her behind the bed the phone was laying on the bed, she had the 45 aimed at the door ~13 ft across the room… 911 dispacher talking to her she said somene was breaking into the house

the Dispacher said she was sending officers. While she was waiting on the officers to arrive 2 men came upstairs and looked into the bedroom She said. STOP! LEAVE NOW! they turned and left..

22 minutes after she dialed 911 the police finally arrived, she heard voices downstars saying Police, she asked the dispacher who was down stairs she said Officer Richard, my daugher said what is his Badge number, just as I taught her (you know the men could have been pretending to be the police) she said his badge number, my daughter said What is your Badge number. The police officer told her. She then said I have a pistol, I am unloading it. she dropped the magazine and removed the round from the chamber.

They caught the 2 men 3 houses up the street where they had beaten a woman and was robbing her house.

THAT is how you defend yourself.

They dont know if your armed are not.. Criminals are not usually the sharpest knives in the drawer… and you make your opportunity..

If they want my Wallet, they will get it.. if I feel they are going to harm me or my family.. at least I will have a chance to defend myself.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 6th, 2009 2:28 am

Emmy.. my black belt is not a match for Blue Steel. I doubt your’s is either.
Emmy Lou writes
June 6th, 2009 2:36 am

Well of course it isn’t! That’s why I had to work on Magnum!

http://www.wikihow.com/Do-the-%22Blue-Steel%22-Pose-from-Zoolander
Pinandpuller writes
June 6th, 2009 2:53 am

Bob, Mikey et al:

All this law changes is who’s pulling in to the Outback Takeaway etc…
Pinandpuller writes
June 6th, 2009 2:57 am

I proposed a new law for the Kansas Legislature: No shooting abortion doctors in church. I’m waiting to hear back.
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 10:34 am

EmmyLou , Dont feel sorry for us. I would feel sorry for you if you got brutely raped because you can’t see reality. Do you REALLY think your jo jitzu would save your life? A gun isnt even a guarantee. You’re livnig in a fantasy world.
What do you mean ” So it is the John Wayne scenerio”.?.
You Liberals are just incapable of putting yourself in other peoples shoes.
I have lots of friends. Very few know I carry. I keep it concealed ( most of the time ) so I dont scare the sheep. I respect your right to be raped and just take it. Thats your choice. But You and everyone else benifits from us carrying guns in several ways. One is the obvious. If I came upon you being abducted, beatn or being raped, I would have the capability to save your life. If you want to call me a John Wayne for saving your life, you go right ahead. I’ll sleep at night knowing I DID SOMETHING. If more women carried guns, less of you would be raped and murdered. ANother way you benefit is. The bad guys dont know whos carrying a gun or not. They size people up as to rather they think they have a gun or not. They do not want to be shot back at. They want easy prey such as you and Mikey. Our so called president wants to make us all sheep so no one has the right to defend themselves.
I’m not saying all Liberal are this way, but I have only 2 friends that are Liberal. One has 2 daughters, 16 & 18. None of them have a key to their house. They never lock their doors and they just comne and go at all hours of the night. That tells me, they think “it wont happen to them”. My other Liberal friend has no insurance on 2 buildings he owns on a busy street where anyone can run a car into it and sue him for all hes got, it could burn down and he looses it all. Someone could walk by, fall , brake their leg and could be sued. He has no health insurane, rides a moped without a helmet and doesnt use a seatbelt.
My point is, alot of Liberals seem to not be able to put themselves in other peoples shoes. Like it only happens to other people or in the movies. I know bad things happen to good people and its always when and where you leaast expect it.
We don’t strap on a gun for any power trip or even thinking we’ll have to use it. Murphys law is always there. I’ve stated before, I honestley feel that I will never have to use my gun. I’m over 50, never been in a fight or been a victim of violence because I avoid trouble when I can and most people that carry will back down from a fight and walk away so the gun doesnt have to come out. I have a big family and none of us have been a victim, but I’m capable of watching the news and realizing that could happen to me. Once it does happen, its too late. I’m prepared for it and you’re not and it’s as simple as that. No different than the seat belt and fire extinguisher, but you’re incapable of seeing that.
The economy is bad and getting worst, crime will go up. I wish you the best in your jo jitzu.
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 10:42 am

Pinandpuller…I assume you’re talking about the Outback being posted “no guns”. Funny thing, the Outback here isnt posted. Are people in Tn somehow different?? If it does get posted, they wont get my money anyway, even at the drive through, until the sign comes down. And it WILL come down at almost all restuarants, then YOU will have to sit next to us scarey gun toters. Geeeez, Give me a brake.
You’d be hard pressed finding a plavce in Ky thats posted. Tn is no different once people wake up and see the money their loosing. Home Depot tried that crap. Permit holders went to Lowes then took their reciepts to Home Depot and said ” This is the money you lost becasuse of that rediculous sign. They changed their tune. Same will happen at the restuarants.
YOu ever go out of town?? Have you ever looked for restuarants that were posted before?? I
‘m betting you didnt because you didnt think about it. WOW , how did you survive?My gosh, Its a wonder the guy at the next table didnt shoot you for looking at him or you be in the cross fire fromm the table that his steak want cooked right. Wake up and come down to reality.
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 11:05 am

Tnvolunteer73. I applaud you for teaching your daughter how to survive. Fantastic job. My daughter has had her own 38 revolver in her room since she was 16. And yes, it’s always loaded. I want her to have a fighting chance should that happen to her. For her 21st birthday shes getting a conceal weapons permit. I dont want her to be a victim of rape or someone find her floating in the Ohio River.. Oh, but, those things only happen to other people.
I’m a big believer in gun education instead of avoiding the subject all together so when a child does come across a gun, they know how to keep from killing themself or someone else. It should be taught in school.
Your daughter may not be alive had you not taught her properly. The proof is in the puddn. My daughter for 4 years now , had a loaded gun in her room and somehow , she and her friends are all still alive. She NEVER touches her gun , but she knows how to use it and handle it safely. If it was taught in school , there would be so many less accidental shootings by kids. But wait, that wont happen, because it nakes sense.
Again, bravo to you for doing the right thing…
Emmy Lou writes
June 6th, 2009 12:01 pm

Tsk tsk, Bob. I said NINJA skilz, which has nothing to do with ju jitsu!

I understand your worldview, truly: you’ve been trained to believe certain things are threatening to your personal safety and that of your loved ones, and you think anyone who doesn’t share your perception is willfully ignorant. Like attracts like, and all that. I do have a suggestion, though: if you actually wanted to convince someone to partake in your worldview, it might be more effective if a) you learned to spell, and b) you didn’t come out with the “brutely (sic) rape” scenario right out of the gate. You know, adopt a little less frothing-at-the-mouth and a little more, “hey, here’s some information you might want to know.” Because yes, to certain ears, your fantasies of protecting random strangers from the gangs of rapist thugs preying on gun-less women at the carryout window at Outback are, to put it mildly, unhinged. And when you say, “I respect your right to be raped and just take it,” then I draw the logical and reasonable conclusion that you’re a dick, and I’m back around where I started, not particularly happy about assholes with guns, and definitely not wanting them on the next barstool.
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 1:14 pm

EmmyLou. You’re right. Poor choice of words on the “rape and take it”. I appologize. I know no girl is going to be raped and just accept it or wants it. Thats not what I meant. I mean that there are options to take to help prevent it and your self defense class, tho it COULD work, I think is a fantasy to think thats all you need to do. The vast majority of the time a gun is never even fired. Just the brandishing is all it takes. With your theory, you have to wait until the perp is skin on skin.
The fact is, women are the victims more than men. And most of the time its sexual assault, which many times leads to murder. So seems logical to use that scenerio.
So I guess my spelling or miss typing is the best you can come up with to discredit me?
I dont carry a gun to protect anyone but me and my family. PERIOD. I am not obligated to help anybody. But if I was put in that situation ( yeah even if you were there ) I’d use any means I had to help someone. I am not going to stand by and watch anyone get hurt,beat, raped or anything else.
Let me ask you a question. Mikey never gave me an answer. Heres the scenerio: You ever see the surveillance videos where a convenient store is being robbed and they march everyone back to the back of the store and execute them all? (Yes that really happens)..
Lets say there are 3 of you in the store. A guy comes in with a gun , robs the store and marches you all to the back of the store and tells you all to kneel on the floor. Now, the guy next to you happens to be carrying a legal gun. Do you want him to try and shoot the guy? Or should he just cower down and let you all get shot in the head? What would you do in that situation? Do you hate gun owners so bad that you’d rather die than have someone help you?
Emmy Lou writes
June 6th, 2009 1:40 pm

Bob, you’re reading way, way too much into this. I don’t personally care, for example, if you don’t take the time to spell correctly; it’s just a helpful hint from me to you on how to more effectively make your argument.

As far as “With your theory, you have to wait until the perp is skin on skin” goes, you’ve made a critical error: I haven’t been expounding any kind of “theory”! Not at all! I’ve given you no information whatsoever as to my “theory” on rape prevention. You, my friend, are the one with the theory; I’m simply pointing out the gaping holes.

I really don’t care if you feel safer with a gun than without; that’s your business. And I don’t care about your little hypotheticals, either! We can play that game all day long, and it’s boring and tiresome. My one and only point is this: you gun guys have been coming across as raving lunatics in these various comment threads, and it’s not helping your argument, because no one wants an armed raving lunatic beside them at a bar!
dontcallmemikey writes
June 6th, 2009 1:43 pm

bob - i’m pretty sure i answered that, frankly, i didn’t know what i would do - it would depend on the situation. now i’m sorry that my answer doesn’t fit your easy scenarios - truly, i am.
i doubt very seriously the Unitarian churchgoer in knoxville gave any scenarios much thought until the moment he stepped in front of a firing gun and stopped a killer before he could harm innocents. i truly am sorry that i haven’t concocted some voodoo ray or something - or dropped to my knees and said, oh my goodness, bob - you’re right! ack, i’ll go get a gun today!!
truth is, as you’ve all but admitted that you don’t know what you would do either. oh, you’ve got the brandishing down, but its not a situation you can predict.
what i don’t appreciate is your continued use of my so-called lack of answer - in your opinion - to question both my character and my courage. that’s personal, and you don’t know me well enough to have that right.
it’s my family, i will do what i can do at the time, given the situation, and given that i do have time - that, son, is the only answer i can give ya. if you don’t like that rather simple and honest answer, kiss my ass.
i truly hope all your scenarios come true if you’re ever in that sitauation - it sounds like you’ve mentally prepared yourself for everything short of an alien pooping out of your stomach. but, like car accidents, you never really know what you’re gonna do - or what you’re made of - until it happens. i hope you never get the opportunity to find out.
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 2:27 pm

Mikey, You have attacked my character also. You said you will stay at home now that I have made it less safe to go out.. Thata a direct attack on me.
I agree these threads can get heated on both sides. I’m not going to change your mind and you’re not going to change mine. We live by our choices, bottom line. Just dont take my right away to do what I think is best for my family. And our second ammenment rights are attacked and threatened every day. We have to fight to keep it. And I know someday it will be taken away because of the liberal attitudes which are unfounded.. So naturally, yes, we get defensive sometime.
Emmylou. . You did too say what your defense is…Ninja skills… And you’re right, you did not specify exactly what is all involved in that. But one can only reach one conclusion and that is you have to be very close to someone to use it unless you are throwing stars.
I agree to dissagree. It does get tiresome. Hey maybe we can all meet at Applebees in Nashville in a couple weeks and have some drinks..I’ll be drinking coke.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 6th, 2009 2:33 pm

hey bob - i’m with ya! but i’ll have a diet coke - that sugar stuff oughta be taxed!
Emmy Lou writes
June 6th, 2009 2:41 pm

Sounds good, but going to have to agree to lay off the sugar. That stuff’ll kill ya!
Pinandpuller writes
June 6th, 2009 4:11 pm

Bob

I was using the take out as an illustration. Gun carriers can’t carry inside until July so if they wanted to eat at Applebee’s they could go inside sans gun or they could go to the take out and go back home.

All the paranoid anti-guncarry crowd can now switch places with us because they will be too scared to go inside and eat.

Get it?
Pinandpuller writes
June 6th, 2009 4:14 pm

Its funny how liberals believe in education when it comes to sex but abstinance when it comes to guns.
Pinandpuller writes
June 6th, 2009 4:15 pm

ence
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 5:11 pm

Bottom line guys and gals. This is one of the most heated debated issues out there. I cant speak for ALL carriers. The stats show there are going to be a few. But show me just ONE law that is not abused by some people. we have to accept a certain amount of people will abuse every law. seat belt, speeding, DWI, gun laws, stealing,and on and on. Why do bars have parking lots? Good,common sense, law abiding citizens are not going to drink over the legal limit. But there are ALOT of people that do, then get out on the road and kill people that follow the law. No law is 100%. This is no different.
If you crunch the numbers in Tn and see the percentage of people that will take advantage of this bill it would be so small, it’s just not worth worrying about. I mean, to say I’m afraid to take my kids out to eat now? If thats your worry, I’d be more worried about driving down the highway. Its hundreds of times less safe.
I know all of you have been out of town and eatn at restuarants that serve alcohol. And out of 35 states that allow carry in them, you’re bound to have been in some that people were carrying. But you didnt look for signs then. You will never know the difference.
I think you’d have to agree the media has made it sound like some big scarey monster. They word it like ” loaded guns in bars” to make it sound just as threatning as they can. One news station in Nashville had so many complaints, ( including from me ) that the next night they re-did the story fairly. it was all because they made it sound like “bars” and not restaurants. The establishment has to serve a certain amount of food to qualify. So Tootsies, I’m sure is out.
Time will tell folks. You’ll look back 5 years from now ( if Mr president hasnt taken our guns ) and you’ll see it’s no problem..

Pinandpuller… I gotcha now……..
Dug Jackson writes
June 6th, 2009 6:07 pm

Hey, gun nuts, take your medication and relax. All those non-white people aren’t out to rape and kill you.
bob writes
June 6th, 2009 6:54 pm

Dug, Who brought race into this? Whats race got to do with anything?
Pinandpuller writes
June 6th, 2009 10:37 pm

Hey Dug-corn ain’t high enough for Strawmen-pick a new craft project at the asylum.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 12:05 am

Dontcallme

Why dont you go to an impartial source.

The University of Chicago (did a study on guns and crime) this studies origian Hypothisis was that the more avaliable guns were the more violent crime.

Well 5 years later the study completed the data had some interesting findings

1. Armed Citizens stopped an average of ~2,500,000 crimes in progress each year (total ~13,000,000 over the 5 years. While the data showed that Police stopped only an average of ~10,000/year (total of 50,000) crimes in progress.

2. States that DO NOT have carry laws, the citizens of that state are 2.42 times MORE LIKELY to be murdered, than in states that have Carry laws.

3. States that DO NOT have carry laws, women are 3.27 times more likely to be reped than women in states that allow women to carry firearms.

4. States that have carry laws people are less likely to be victims of a violent crime.

5. There was little or no change in non-violent crimes. Like stealing hubcaps, shop lifting ect.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 12:09 am

Dug

Why do you believe that only non-whites rape people?

I favor all races/sexual orientations/genders to legally carry.

This is about everyone’s right.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 7th, 2009 7:30 am

YNVolunteer73 - if you’re referring to the work of John Lott (aka Mary Rosh), his work has been discredited (as he has been himself, for - among other things - creating a fictional character to give good reviews of his own book).

However, there is a study by two fellows, Ayres and Donohue, the strongly suggest Lott (and some guy named Mustard) had serious errors in their analysis.

“For every crime category, substantially more of the resulting state-specific estimates show estimated increases in crime following the adoption of these laws than show decreases (and the disparity is even greater if one limits the analysis to statistically significant estimates). Moreover, when these state-specific county estimates are converted into dollar values (AD Table 1436), the effect of adoption of concealed carry laws using our preferred hybrid model is to increase the overall cost of crime by roughly $1 billion (AD Table 1537).”

Their basic conclusion - using Lott’s data, corrected for the errors - is there is a slight uptick in violent crime for those states who adopted CCW in the ’90s and later.

From their abstract:
The most robust finding on the state data is that certain property crimes rise with passage of shall- issue laws, although the absence of any clear theory as to why this would be the case tends to undercut any strong conclusions. Estimating more statistically preferred disaggregated models on more complete county data, we show that in most states shall- issue laws have been associated with more crime and that the apparent stimulus to crime tends to be especially strong for those states that adopted in the last decade.

Here’s the link to the pdf for you -

http://lsr.nellco.org/yale/lepp/papers/278/
spaz writes
June 7th, 2009 9:17 am

Why is it gun owners aren’t man enough to handle themselves in a bar - or a restaurant - without a gun?

Here’s what I think. A bunch of chickenhawk wingnuts are talking politics in the bar and getting their asses kicked by liberals. And rather than learn how to fight or how to keep their mouths shut, they want to “level the playing field” by arming themselves.

Kind of like that p**sy in Knoxville that had to sneak up on innocent people during a church play and start shooting people in the back. Or that coward Roeder who ambushed the abortion doctor.

Man, conservatives… what a bunch of scared, bedwetting pansies. Should people this weak be carrying voting cards, let alone guns? I think not.
JohnnyC writes
June 7th, 2009 12:04 pm

Spaz- not a conservative or a gun carrier or even a fan of guns- but what a moronic strawman post. It’s be like- in an abortion debate- saying what’s wrong with women? Can’t they keep their legs together? Don’t they have the independence and self-confidence to mouth the four little words “Put on a condom.”

And Bredesen’s correct…it’s a lot easier to find the right to bear arms enumerated in the Constitution than it is the right to terminate a pregnancy. Your comparing law abiding citizens
who wish to exercise that right to murderers is a bit like comparing a woman who seeks a safe, legal abortion to Susan Smith or Casey Anthony.

Get a grip. Or a real argument.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 1:19 pm

Spaz.. We are, that is why we are allowed to Carry, we have proven with our life Experices we are capable of holding our tempers, Obey the law, and have such high Personal Characters the state has given us the privilage of carrying weapons.

Lets look at Reallity

why can’t those that do not have their permit not have the restrant, the ability to obey the law, or the intellegence to not carry a firearm safely.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 1:24 pm

John Lotts work has not been discredited.

UCLA performed another 5 year study, over a different 5 year period.. The Studies came to almost the exact Same outcomes..

UCLA proved Lotts with a 2nd study to be 100% correct.

2 Different studies by 2 different source with the same outcome… is undeinable Statistical evidence.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 7th, 2009 1:37 pm

“Last fall, Northwestern University law professor James Lindgren volunteered to investigate the claimed existence of Lott’s 1997 telephone survey of 2,424 people. “I thought it would be exceedingly simple to establish” that the research had been done, Lindgren wrote in his report.

It was not simple. Lott claims to have lost all of his data due to a computer crash. He financed the survey himself and kept no financial records. He has forgotten the names of the students who allegedly helped with the survey and who supposedly dialed thousands of survey respondents long-distance from their own dorm rooms using survey software Lott can’t identify or produce.

Assuming the survey data was lost in a computer crash, it is still remarkable that Lott could not produce a single, contemporaneous scrap of paper proving the survey’s existence, such as the research protocol or survey instrument. After Lindgren’s report was published, a Minnesota gun-rights activist named David Gross came forward, claiming he was surveyed in 1997. Some have said that Gross’s account proves that the survey was done. I think skepticism is warranted.

“Some Second Amendment activists believe there is an anti-gun conspiracy to discredit Lott as “payback” for the fall of Michael Bellesiles, the disgraced former Emory University professor who engaged in rampant research fraud to bolster his anti-gun book, “Arming America.” But it wasn’t an anti-gun zealot who unmasked Rosh/Lott. It was Internet blogger Julian Sanchez, a staffer at the libertarian Cato Institute, which staunchly defends the Second Amendment. And it was the conservative Washington Times that first reported last week on the survey dispute in the mainstream press.”

- this from Michelle Malkin, not exactly a fan of the anti-gun crowd.

Where was the nfo on the UCLA study - I’d like to see it.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 2:19 pm

The only problem is that UCLA.. another university did the same study over a different 5 year period 1995-2000… Same Results.

Which Confirmed the University of Chicago study to be accurate.

The Source for both studies was the FBI Uniniform Crime Statstics.

The only Studies that have NOT confirmed the Lotts study are those that make no differentation between Criminal Acts and Justifiable Acts of Self Defence.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 2:30 pm

http://politics.nashvillepost.com/2009/05/29/tn-firearms-association-on-the-warpath/#comment-432157

Professor of management & public policy of UCLA

“(John) Lott argued that murder rates decline after the adoption of RTC laws even after allowing for the effect of other variables that affect crime rates.

The Committee has confirmed this finding . . . in view of the confirmation of the findings that shall-issue laws drive down the murder rate. it is hard for me to understand why these claims are called fragile.”

– James O. Wilson

Professor of management & public policy of UCLA

There is the summation.. If you look at the Graph that is conjuction with this summation… the Drop in Murder is HUGE when Right to Carry is allowed.
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 2:31 pm

The CDC also followed up on this study

Interestingly, the CDC published its own study in 2003 that–you guessed it–could find no proof that gun control laws lowered violent crime rates, suicides or accidental shootings. Its conclusion? “We are calling for additional high-quality studies.” (See “The CDC’s On-Going Infection with the Anti-Gun Bug,” Dec. 2003).
dontcallmemikey writes
June 7th, 2009 2:42 pm

At the National Rifle Association website is your referencing article about the National Research Council’s report - Wilson is referred to as ‘the lone dissenter’. Your link just went back to my original post, so I’m still not finding a study by UCLA at all … I offered a Yale study and a sample of a column talking about Lott being discredited from Michelle Malkin - you give me the NRA? I did look on the FBI site and found nothing - link please … ?
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 7th, 2009 4:53 pm

No the University of UCLA is my Source.

The Site I used to access the report was an NRA Website.

Do you not know the difference in a Source, and a link to a source?
bob writes
June 7th, 2009 5:14 pm

YOu know, the basic, simple, realistic, easy to see answer is to look at the facts that surround you everyday. Liberals are incapable of doing that.
Tn has had carry laws for a long time. How many of you have seen the negative affects of it?? I mean in real life, in the news or in the paper? I’m not talking thugs, I’m talking by conceal weapons carriers. Law abiding citizens. Hoe often???? Why not base your fears on something you can see or hold in your hand?
This whole arguement can be settled by opening your eyes. How many of you have been in Walmart or a gas station, or walking down the street and been threatended by someone legally carrying a gun?? Please show me the evidence in YOUR life and how YOUR life has been affected by law abiding citizens carrying guns. It happens SO rarely it’s just not worth worrying about. You people are the paranoid ones. I see the eveidence of kidnapping, robberies, rapes, murders, theft, brake ins, road rage. I SEE it with my own eyes on the news EVERY day. I can see it. You’re worrying about something that you cant even see.
This thread is really about restaurant carry. I’m willing to bet ALL of you have been in restaurants that serve alcohol in other states where its legal and never gave it a thought. But now that the big scarey law has come to your state, somewhow its gonna be “look out her comes Charles Bronson”. Show me the articles from the 35 states that allow it where its a problem. You have 3/4 of the entire country to get proof from. My gosh, I hope none of you have eaten out at any restaurants in the state of FL,AL,Ky,Ms,Ar,Mo,Wa,Or,Ca,Nv,Id,Wy,Ut,Co,Sd,Ne,Ks,Ok,
Tx,Ia,Mn,Mi,In<Pa,Ny,Wv,Me, in the past 10 years or so. How did you survive??? I guess the good people of Tn must be savages, unlike the rest of the country. You guys must have had alot of places to avoid. Guess you all ate out at Mcdonalds while on vacation where its safe. Oh wait, that place was shot up 20 years ago. 21 people died….
I can SEE the devastation every day from drunk drivers that are leaving your “safe haven” resaurants and killing people everyday. I look at things as they are. You gun haters base your entire fear on feelings, and not evidence.
You could put me in a room with 10 people and you couldnt pick me out. I’m a normal, hard working parent that chooses to be prepared if my life is threatened
( yes folks, that really happens ) and you choose not to prepare yourself. Thats it. Your choice, my choice. I’m prepared, your not. Fine. We live by our choices.
I honestly believe I will never have to use my gun. But I also believe when I get in the car, I wont be killed, but I still put on the ol seat belt.
PLease show me the eveidence that law abiding citizens carrying guns has affected your life,a family members life or a friends life. You’re around them everyday and have been for years. you just dont know it because we mind our own business.
The bottom line. A percentage of us on here will most likely become a victim of violent crime. If its you, the criminal is going home. If its me, I’m going home.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 7th, 2009 5:14 pm

Oh I know the difference. I also get that you don’t want to send a link to see the UCLA report. semantics shmantics - where’s the link to the actual UCLA report you cite … what is on the NRA page is not credible as a ’source’ because it provides only one viewpoint and ‘mentions’ the UCLA report, but does not provide it.

Is this report on a UCLA website, perhaps?
bob writes
June 8th, 2009 9:41 am

Heres something else to make ya feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Its an FBI study on cops and their attackers. Heres a quote from the site about how often cops hit their mark in a shoot out:

In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this “may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills,” the study says.
The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.

So looks like cops arent as good with a gun as most of us. Most conceal weapon carriers practice much more than cops do. I’m sure me and my friends could out perform most cops, thus reducing the chance of stray bullets.
Hers the link to the study. Also take note of what it says under “weapon choice” for those of you that think the assault weapons ban was affective. Gun laws do nothing to reduce crime.

http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home/detail.html?serial=62
dontcallmemikey writes
June 8th, 2009 11:01 am

From your source, bob - and I actually think this makes the case for more restrictions than less, for these are pretty much spot on for what i’ve read in this forum, here and in other threads.

****
Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:

–show signs of being armed that officers miss;

–have more experience using deadly force in “street combat” than their intended victims;

–practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;

–have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. “If you hesitate,” one told the study’s researchers, “you’re dead. You have the instinct or you don’t. If you don’t, you’re in trouble on the street….”

*****

Sounds to be like a profile that could very well fit *some* CCW’s, doesn’t it (present company excluded, bob - not taking a personal shot at you, hence the emphasis on *some*)
TNVolunteer73 writes
June 8th, 2009 1:12 pm

Don’t call me the link is in the report
networkguy writes
June 8th, 2009 1:36 pm

All you folks that insist on name-calling in every one of your posts only validate the other sides point. If you can’t make a valid argument without calling somebody a dickless wonder (knowing full well you wouldn’t say that to somebody’s face - gotta love the Internet) then keep it to yourself. You just come off sounding like an ignorant a-hole.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 8th, 2009 1:38 pm

hmm … do you mean ‘an ignorant a-hole’ in a good way, or a bad way … perhaps it would be best to not name call in a post urging people not to name-call … just a suggestion
bob writes
June 8th, 2009 2:47 pm

Mikey, The report is about thugs and cop killers. Ya dont need a license to kill a cop. I’m sure the VAST majority of them are convicted felons. Thugs. Worthless pieces of trash.
The point is ( which you missed ) , is the “practicing more often”. Rather its a thug, a cop, or a law abiding citizen , the more ya practice, the better you are at anything. Lots of cops dont even like guns. They rarely ever practice. I practice atleast once a month.
People have this illusion that cops are all great shots, so people trust them with their guns. Cops are prosecuted all across this great land of ours for rape, murder, theft , you name it. But yet, people dont give it a thought when they stand next to them in the grocery store. Someone mentioned earlier about carrying in a bar “until the gun goes off then its too late”. Its just funny how people can be around cops all day and not give a single thought to their guns just “going off” , but yet you worry about mine.
In all fairness, I heard on the news that a guys gun did go off in a restaurant and shot the floor. Last I heard, they hadnt figured out why it happened. I’m not going to defend every person that carries a gun. I carry in an expensive holster where the gun cannot come out and it has a trigger gaurd. I dont take my gun out EVER. But like I said, you show me ONE law that some arent going to abuse or a few idiots arent going to screw it up for everyone.
The stats you tried to use from Texas broke down to such a small percentage, the amount of lives saved and crimes stopped waaay outweigh the bad. Thus my point on the drunk driving. Maybe you should thrust your efforts in that direction. Chill out. You are worrying about nothing.
Let me ask you.. once this law goes into affect, will you eat at a restaurant that is not posted?
dontcallmemikey writes
June 8th, 2009 3:11 pm

No.

the point you missed, bob, is that the profile of a THUG is eerily similar to what a lot some who have posted here describe as how they consider themselves - practiced, able to think clearly on the street, concealed carefully so most people wouldn’t know they were carrying, and not hesitant to pull the trigger. My suggestion is that there’s a VERY fine line between some who carry and the THUGS described in the report, and that alcohol is a dangerous thing to put anywhere near the mix.
networkguy writes
June 8th, 2009 3:51 pm

Mikey,
That is quite possibly the least thought out, unintelligent argument for gun control I have heard yet. To refer back to Bob’s example: that is akin to saying there is a fine line between someone who has practiced safe driving for years and someone who drinks and drives on a regular basis, calling that practice.
Since Tennessee began issuing carry permits in 1994, less than 1% have been revoked due to offenses. And the majority of those were revoked for offenses that occurred BEFORE their license was granted, because of the 90 day limit on background checks.
In contrast, the percentage of the total population that commits crimes is closer to 10%. So, in fact, permit holders are more law-abiding, safer citizens as a group.
And as a permit holder, and one who is friends with MANY other permit holders and people who carry regularly, I can tell you that there is NO fine line between those who carry legally and thugs. That statement is beyond asinine.
First, we take the responsibility of owning and carrying a firearm EXTREMELY seriously, which is one reason we defend it so fervently. Thugs do not.
Second, permit holders are trained, by law, in the safe operation and handling of their firearms. Thugs only practice shooting. They don’t care if they are safe or not.
Third, the last thing a permit holder ever wants to do is take another human life. It is in the very defense of human life that we carry. Namely, our lives, our friends’ lives, and most importantly, the lives of our families.
Finally, if the image that liberals try to portray of permit holders being cowboys, wanting to bring back the “wild west” (which is also a gross exaggeration, but that’s a debate for another time) were true, then why is it that almost all permit holders carry concealed? It’s legal to carry open in Tennessee with a permit. If we wanted to flaunt our guns, we would wear them with no attempt at concealing.
To quote Ronald Reagan: “The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.”
bob writes
June 8th, 2009 6:18 pm

MIkey, I agree with what you said on the way some profile themselves except for the part of pulling the trigger. If I’m going to carry a gun, I want to be as good as I can be with it. It’s like driving. I’ve never had an accident. I must be pretty good at it after practicing for 0ver 30 years.
And YES we conceal it as well as we can so we dont scare people like you!! Some states require that you conceal it well. You are the reason we conceal it well. So we dont cause the uninformed to panic. Its not so we can just “whip it out” at tjhe slightest provication..
Its very simple. If I pull my gun on someone without very good cause, I loose my permit and go to jail. I dont want to go to jail and I’m sure I speak for every carrier on this thread.
I’m not even close to a THUG as you compare me to and I do take offense to that. Its flat ignorance on your part.
I Havent seen you post how conceal carry has affected your life personally? Do you have nothing to share with us? You’re around it most everyday. Have you not eatn out at restaurants in other staes and look for posted places before you eat there? WIll you eat at a place that is not posted after July 14th? Or do you not want to answer the hard questions?
We do agree on one thing. Alcohol and guns DO NOT mix. It is up to each carrier to be responsible and not drink. Just I am about drinking and driving. If I was so recklous with my life, wouldnt I have a rap sheet?
I know you cant show me anything about how conceal carry has affected your life negetively because you would have brought it up by now. If it was so bad, trust me, the left wing media would jump at the chance to say on the news ” the killer had a conceal weapons permit”…
bob writes
June 8th, 2009 6:29 pm

Hey dontcallmemikey….. I’m going to throw you a biscuit………. To ease your mind a bit. I know about 8 people that have permits. Only 3 carry on a regular basis. Alot of people get them just for traveling and they usually just keep the gun in the car. So just because someone has a permit, doesnt mean they have a gun on them.
I’m just of the mindset that crime can and does happen when you least expect it, so I carry everywhere I can. Bad things happen to good people every day.
bob writes
June 8th, 2009 6:47 pm

Networkguy…. Great post…. I agreed with all you said until you said the part about flaunting and open carry. I’m all for it and I do open carry at times. Mostly when I go to Nashville or out of town. I dont feel I’m flaunting anything. I feel I’m educating the public by advertising the fact that I am an average citizen exercising my 2nd ammendment rights. More like “look you can do it too”.
If more people carried guns, crime would plumit.
( oh boy here we go ).
An armed society is a polite society……….
dontcallmemikey writes
June 8th, 2009 7:36 pm

bob - i will tell you that i have not been affected personally by concealed carry. I have plenty of experiences with alcohol … and i don’t wish to share them, except to say that I have seen very sane people do very insane things when alcohol is involved, including myself (in my younger, wilder days). I have had friends with permits who I’ve had to talk out of suicide while they were drinking. I don’t give a rat’s patootie about CCW in the general. not really a problem with it in the parks, etc. - but, repeat - guns and alcohol do not mix. Period.
bob writes
June 8th, 2009 8:57 pm

WOW a break through…. You’ve been arguing about every point I ( we ) make on every aspect of CCW until now. It’s not a problem in parks etc. WOW !
If someone is going to commit suicide with a gun, the last thing he ( she ) needs is a permit to do it. Thats just absurd to throw in ” friends with permits” , like if they didnt have that darned permit they wouldnt have wanted to attempt suicide…
I’ve had guns all my life, but only had a permit for 3 years. Suicide is a totally different issue. You dont need a gun or a permit to commit suicide.
Like Ive said, We agree alcohol does not mix with guns,knives,cars,baseball bats etc..
The undeniable facts are, the vast majority of ccw holders are responsible people that do not want to risk loosing the right to self defense or going to jail.. You will see in time, this IS the way it will play out, or the good people of Tn are different from everyone else in 35 states.
Go take the kids to the family restaurant, have a beer, and dont worry about US. Worry about the guy sitting at the next table that is drinking too much and getting in that 2000 lb missle…..
dontcallmemikey writes
June 8th, 2009 9:16 pm

bob - not such a breakthrough - you just have been to dug in to realize I said that a loooong time ago. My complaint isn’t so much with CCW - its not for me, but I can live with it at least - but not with alcohol.

Now, we agree alcohol doesn’t mix with guns - so why isn’t it a worry for you that even the one or two you admit might be bad actors are being enabled by this legislation … no legislation should enable bad people to do bad things. There’s no scale of right/wrong that says you enable bad behavior you already admit is probably happening anyway. You build up a firewall so it is less likely, then prosecute the hell out of those that don’t pay attention to the law. And, God bless ya, if CCWs are - in the main - honest, law-abiding people who care - then they weren’t breaking the law before, why give a handful of those stopped at the door a second chance to fail?

no, you won’t persuade me its good law. Maybe it will be ok - probably, in the main - it will be. But it definitely isn’t good law; its convenient law designed primarily to make a very narrow (again, by your own definition) constituency feel grateful.

Other states? don’t live there. live here. hate that my state had to join this particular choo-choo train.
dontcallmemikey writes
June 8th, 2009 9:22 pm

re: suicide. of course. but you asked my specifics, and it reminded me of one of the reasons i’m not particularly fond of the ease of getting a permit for guns, or having them around the house … had too many of those conversations with a couple of friends in *very* tense situations - didn’t lose one, thank goodness.
bob writes
June 9th, 2009 10:18 am

dontcallmemikey , I think you’re being to “strict” here on this law. You cannot name me one law that every person will follow to the letter. We all have to accept that a law is made for the better of society. Not everyone stops at all red lights, thus ending in death. Lets take down all the parking lots in front of resautants that serve alcohol and bars because a few people abuse it. And its waaaay more than abuse the ccw laws by far. What you are saying is that you expect 100% of the ccw holders to abide by the law. Stats prove that a very small number doesnt.
Name me ONE law that everyone abides by. You choose your battles and if you put it in perspective of other laws , this one will be very low on the abuse of it. The stats in other states prove that.
General Forrest writes
June 9th, 2009 8:59 pm

I thought liberals were supposed to be kind, caring, compassionate, understanding, non-judgemental, willing to seek compromise, stand in the other man’s (woman’s) shoes.
Instead, what I hear are comments from some of the most narrow minded, filthy mouthed, judgemental people in the country. I think the real deal is that we are seeing first hand what a bunch of intolerant people you really are.
General Forrest writes
June 9th, 2009 9:04 pm

BTW, my wife and I just returned from Alaska, a state that doesn’t ever require a permit to carry a handgun, concealed or otherwise, and I’m happy to report not one blazing gun battle the whole time we were there.
bob writes
June 11th, 2009 8:08 pm

General Forrest. I agree with you for the most part, but I can also see some rudeness on the “pro-gun” side. I come off as rude in some of my posts, and I admit it. It’s hard not to sound rude when so much is at stake. It’s nothing personal, but we are the ones on the defense. It’s our 2nd ammendment rights being attacked. These rights have been around for over 200 years.
I get defensive because the facts are out there and people would rather make their opinions from feelings rather than facts. Alot on here, ( not all ) would be thrilled if they banned guns. They have no clue what that would do to our country. Black market guns would be the norm, just like drugs, prostitution and alcohol during prohibition. Like the ol saying says, take guns away from the people ,only criminals will have guns.
Gun control is exactly what it says, “control”.
A gun bans wouldn’t be for our safety. It’s all about control of the people. Once they take our guns away, this country is right there with the Soviet Union.
Friday writes
June 16th, 2009 12:44 am

I am a retired police officer.I am aware of all the terrible crimes that have occurred in my lifetime. Unlike many of the non licensed with children afraid to eat in restaurants along with us licensed gun owners. You live in a world where everything is rosy and there is no need for you to carry a gun. I am glad. Because only those used to handling , and shooting guns should carry them. You should rely on one of us to rescue you when the need arises. You had better hope someone with a permit is near by to do so when it happens because the police are always over ten minutes away. You know, eating donuts , right? Not their fault, just too few of them and too many calls to answer.
I carried a gun on and off duty 24/7 even in bars. I must have messed up because I never got angry and shot anyone. But, since there were probably half a dozen armed off duty cops in those places, and the criminals knew it, they probably behaved themselves.
Some people commenting here almost sound jealous, as it maybe they cant get a permit and therefore, badmouth those that have them.
So many people that dont like guns seem to miss the point, that those of us with permits, want to keep them, and not lose them for life, by breaking the rules. Rules like carrying in a bar and drinking. Do yo really believe there are license holders doing that already? May as well save the hundreds of dollars and not get one cause you would lose it real quick if caught! NO, like said above, some of us would enter such a place maybe to see a country band play. I wont get into the argument about saloons, but restaurants that serve alcohol I feel we should be allowed in. Everyday I read in the paper that someone broke into a car at Walmart, or Crackerbarrel etc . I dont need my gun stolen out of the car while I am eating dinner. Even if they dont come inside with it, they will use it somewhere.
Dont be afraid to sit near me while you eat, I have yet to shoot myself or anyone else in about 45 years of going armed. Its not the permit holder you need to fear. Its the guy in there carrying a weapon who has no training and intends to use it in a crime that you have to worry about.
I seem to remember a fast food restaurant right here in TN where a guy walked in and shot everyone on the floor. Another where he lined the employees up in the kitchen or fridge and shot them in the head one at a time. This happens across the country more than you think. I hope I am in there eating when it happens to you so I can save your life and then say : I told you so. (-: Not really. Having to use my weapon is the last thing I ever want to have to do. But, just like getting out of the car without my stick one time and then having to fight a nutcase for ten minutes, I feel, the day I will need to defend myself or someone else is coming and I want to be ready.
I can give numerous occasions where it was necessary to be armed off duty. Officers who just happened to be there in a bank when it was robbed. ONe was held up at a phone in a college while taking a course. Wish I was there when the guy chased his wife around in a MD parking lot with an axe and finally caught up with her and yes, killed her.
Personally, I like knowing there are hundreds of good guys with guns out there instead of the 12 or so deputies only, who are overworked and a long way from most incidents when they occur.
Just my feelings about it. But at least I have seen many horrific crimes over the years and know that they do occur. Many of those crime victims could have saved themselves had they had guns. But like many today, felt no need and had a dislike of guns. Thats fine with me. Not everyone is capable of handling a gun in an emergency . But, some of us are and you should thank God we are out there.
Joe Friday
bob writes
June 18th, 2009 7:28 pm

Joe Friday. Thank you for your post. It’s good to hear from someone with day to day experience on this subject. When seconds matter, cops are only minutes away. I really think some people on here watch too many movies where someone comes rushing in and saves the day. Crime happens in a blink of an eye.
I’ve gone through one road block since I’ve had my permit. In Ky I do not have to inform the officer I am carrying, but I do tell them anyway out of respect. I said ” I have a permit and I am carrying a gun”, he asked “where is it” I said “It’s on my right hip”. He said “ok” ,and that was it. If he was so worried about legal gun carrying, he would have said more. Obviously his experience tells him I’m a good guy. He knew I was a law abiding citizen just by the fact that I had a permit, plus I told him I was carrying when I didnt have to.
Thank you for doing what you do and thank you for bringing some true experience to this thread.
Chris writes
July 12th, 2009 9:26 pm

Has anyone really read the law? If the establishment is 21 and over you can’t take your gun. So that leaves really resturants, only if they don’t opt out. I think most major chains will opt out for liabilty reasons and the ones that don’t want to lose the business of the majority of the population. So it looks like the gun carriers will be protecting themselves and each other in a few resturants. Good luck with that. Sounds like you have won a major victory. I don’t care either way. I just don’t see what was gained or lost by this becoming law.
bob writes
July 14th, 2009 6:17 pm

Chris, As far as the liability deal. 37 other states allow this and there is no problem. I live in Ky and I have yet to see a restaurant posted “no guns”. Tn will have some post for a while then the signs will slowely come down due to lost revenue. If someone from Tn travels to another state and eats out, chances are, the restaurant will allow guns. So it’s not even thought about. But now that the big bad bill has come close to home, somewhow its all of a sudden a big threat.
Cmon people, look around you at other states. Research the internet and see for yourself its not a problem anywhere else. Unless Tennesseans are less responsible than people in other states.
bob writes
July 19th, 2009 10:46 am

Looks like the posted signs are already coming down in Tn. I’ve read many posts about restaurants that posted for only days then were flooded with “common sense” info from CCW holders and also saw how much business they were already loosing,so they took the signs down… Hope all you that said you wouldnt eat at a place that allowed guns find somewhere to eat.
TNVolunteer73 writes
July 19th, 2009 1:39 pm

Bob… And I would be afraid to eat at those resturants.

Those that post No guns allowed….. Will be painting bulls eyes on their patrons, not necesarily in the resturant but walking to and from their cars to the resturant.

Plus I also says “there are Guns in these cars” because people that have permits will be required to leave them in their cars.
dontcallmemikey writes
July 19th, 2009 5:31 pm

TNVol … and you wonder who’s paranoid?

Think of it like this, befo the lege did what it did, everyone naturally assumed no guns were in bars/restaurants, assumed there were guns in cars. That was the status quo. So, um - was there a problem before that called for this bill to be passed?
Bubba B writes
July 21st, 2009 5:58 pm

I have a gun permit and I went to downtown Nashville with my family for dinner. I had to leave my handgun in my truck because it had a, “no guns allowed” sign on the front door of the restaurant. After we left the restaurant, a black guy stuck a gun in my face and threatened to kill my five year old if I, “Didn’t hurry up!” He laughed about the restaurant not allowing guns and he knew no one coming out of that restaurant had one. I will never go to downtown Nashville again because the, “no handgun” sign on the doors encourages criminals to rob you. I did call the owner of the restaurant and told him about the incident that occurred. He said he wasn’t changing his policy even if everyone got robbed in or after they left. He was a real belligerent @hole and this pissed me off! This happened on July 19, 2009.
justacommonguy writes
August 23rd, 2009 4:23 pm

I’m nearing 50. A non drinker, family man, a soon to be handgun permit holder. I will be carrying a gun for the same reason i put on a seatbelt, common sense as crime is all to prevalent . Worst run in with the law I have had was a speeding ticket.

I will go to the range often to be safe and proficient in the use of my weapon. I believe i am a typical HCP holder.

While waiting at the DMV to file my paperwork for the HCP, an employee of the DMV was asking the crowd looking for a certain HCP applicant. A man in front of me, while flirting with a young woman, stated to her “I dont worry with a *&*^ gun permit, i carry my gun anyway”.

THIS IS THE TYPE PEOPLE YOU SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT, NOT HCP HOLDERS!
TNVolunteer73 writes
August 23rd, 2009 4:30 pm

Mikey most Criminals get their Firearms through Theift…

I am not paranoid. I am a Realist..

Deathsfrom CCW holders carrying firearms into bars: 0

Deaths from Drunk Drivers that go to bars: 271

Nuff said.

TN Firearms Association On The Warpath

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Women's Health News » More Writing On and Coverage of the Mammography Controversy

Tiny Cat Pants » The Butcher Keeps Me On Track

TaxingTennessee » Most Obscene Global Warming Alarmist Ad Yet

WisdomIsVindicated » So-called scientists

KnoxViews - » We waited with baited breath, turned our lonely eyes 2 U

Appalachian Abroad » Obama Should End the War

Compassion in Politics: Christian Social Entrepreneurship, Education Innovation, & Base of the Pyramid/BOP Solutions » Coworking, Jelly, and Coffee Shop Mashup!!!

Compassion in Politics: Christian Social Entrepreneurship, Education Innovation, & Base of the Pyramid/BOP Solutions » An Open Letter to the Washington Post Online

KnoxViews - » Knox candidates off and running

KnoxViews - » No guns in bars. Again.

KnoxViews - » They Work for You,

KnoxViews - » Restaurant Review: K Town Kebabs, or "How I went to the mall, and left happy."

KnoxViews - » Southeastern Division of the Association of American Geographers in Knoxville, Nov 22-24

KnoxViews - » Quote of the Day

KnoxViews - » County Commission District 7

KnoxViews - » University of Calif. OKs 32 percent tuition hike

KnoxViews - » Cortney Piper considers bid for Burchett's State Senate seat

KnoxViews - » Obama: slacker

KnoxViews - » FAA: Flight delays due to computer glitch

KnoxViews - » Public meeting re. Gay Street 100 block project

KnoxViews - » Speaking of convergence

KnoxViews - » Distance learning from space

KnoxViews - » Headline of the day

KnoxViews - » Friday marks official start of the Knox County 2010 elections

KnoxViews - » Brown bag lunch and book discussion today with Dr. McIntyre

KnoxViews - » A quick note about the trial of Khalid Sheik Mohammed

KnoxViews - » Interesting afternoon at UT

KnoxViews - » While City Council is Considering EZ Bonds to Upgrade the Holiday Inn,

KnoxViews - » NEA/AFT oppose tax on "Cadillac" health plans

KnoxViews - » What to do? Breast cancer screening guidelines changing?

KnoxViews - » Environment America: 100 new nuclear reactors not the answer to global warming

KnoxViews - » Leonid Meteor Showers Peak Tuesday

KnoxViews - » TNDP: Obama is not a communist

KnoxViews - » Palin could easily get the GOP nomination in 2012 due to winner take all primaries

KnoxViews - » Paula Flowers ready for progressive prime time?

KnoxViews - » 10 Differences Between Fox News and MSNBC

KnoxViews - » Layoffs report

KnoxViews - » Karaoke pirates

TaxingTennessee » The Fightin Double Zero Congressional District

KnoxViews - » County Commission District 7

Tennesseefree.com » Voting For Health Bill Requirement of Blackness