The Two/Four Debate

8 Responses to “The Two/Four Debate”

1. Sean Braisted writes
   March 25th, 2009 1:32 pm

   Logically, the Governor is right in that there are probably a lot of jobs where the person with an Associates could do just as well as a person with a Bachelor’s. Aunt B is right in that often times employers aren’t very logical when it comes to experience vs. education.

2. MCO writes
   March 25th, 2009 2:03 pm

   The fundamental problem is that our entire system of post-secondary education is out of whack, and fixing it would require significant, politically unpopular reform. Many people without any academic interest attend universities, though those institutions do not really offer the type of training relevant to the career paths many of them will follow. The university at this point mostly has value in offering a credential, not an education.

   A revamped post-secondary educational system that meets current needs would result in fewer people attending traditional universities, while larger numbers would attend institutions providing training for various career paths.

3. Andy Axel writes
   March 25th, 2009 2:07 pm

   Bredesen is thinking too small. GEDs are cheaper than 4-year high school educations as well.

4. B writes
   March 25th, 2009 2:20 pm

   It’s cheaper on the state to have a kid flunk out after a year of community college than it is to have a kid flunk out after a year at a 4-year college.

5. Andy Axel writes
   March 25th, 2009 2:39 pm

   So rather than raising our sights for education, the potential cost of the worst potential performers should set the bar for everyone else. Brilliant.

   “Idiocracy” is beginning to look more like prophecy than satire.

6. B writes
   March 25th, 2009 4:17 pm

   Realistically Andy - I think the Governor is pointing out that there is an unfair stigma against going to a community college right out of high school. You can still get a great education at a community college and ultimately graduate with a bachelors degree. Plenty of students would also benefit from being at a smaller, less expensive institution that is often closer to home. At my law school graduation ceremony - they read out the prior degrees everyone had earned along with their names. I was amazed at the number who proudly claimed their associate degrees too. A community college isn’t right for everyone right out of high school. Neither is a 4 year university. Encouraging families to get past the university snob factor and focus on what is the best educational fit for them is not the worst thing a Governor can do.

7. Actually... writes
   March 25th, 2009 4:54 pm

   in many states the percentages are reversed between two and four year institutions. The failure rate, the use of remdial classes, at four year institutions could be a sign that kids are not prepared for four years of work. The four year schools just toss them out and go on. If there was less of a stigma, if kids could start out at two year schools, have success and transfer easily to four year schools, maybe the four year completion rate would go up. That is what he is talking about.

8. Slartibartfast writes
   March 25th, 2009 5:11 pm

   Maybe things are different in the ivory tower, but all other things being equal, I would hire the one with an AA and two years of experience in my highly technical field.

   It’s not even close.

   Find me someone with a 10th grade education that can demonstrate he understands program flow, encapsulation, and data normilazation, and I’d hire him. Very few folks with a BS that I’ve interviwed have a proper understanding of these things, much less the syntax of modern languages (Universities are generally 2 generations behind)

   But, B #2 is right - this is about undergrad university snobbery. If one goes to Vol State for two years, then graduates with honors from Vandy, does he have some kind of disadvantage in the workforce? No.